what to do with sad looking cedar deck?

[mckenzy]

Hi, Greg from over at gardenweb suggested I visit here and ask a few ?'s. Thanks Greg!

I have a small cedar deck with a landing and 2 staircases w/railings, built in Sept. The builder didn't offer any info on sealing, so I went to local big box and got some Olympic WaterGuard Waterproofing Clear Sealant for wood. My buddy sanded the wood really smooth and applied one coat. Then the torrential Pac NW rains started and rained like stink for 8 months!

Now the thing looks like crap-ola. Gray, dirty, dull and w/black streaks because the builder used the wrong screws and they bled. My new carpenter can replace the screws but can I get the black stains out? And, do that before or after new screws are in?

From what I've read, we shouldn't have sanded the cedar (pores closed so didn't accept the sealant very well). Who knew?

What product should I use now? RAD sounded good but company's having problems. I don't want to use a power washer, what about PowerSolve Injectable Stripper/Cleaner and Brightening Agent? Attaches to garden hose. Or, what about EFC-38 and Citralic Brightener? We can use a scrub brush and elbow grease with lots of hose rinsing. I want to a cedar tone semi transparent stain/sealer and considering the massive rain we get here, what's the best product so we don't have to go thru this again so soon?

My dog uses this area too so want to be sure nasty chemicals aren't mucking up the place.

I really appreciate the guidance and will buy online since the big box stores seem to have lower grade products.

Thanks for all your advice!

[Beth n Rod]

Hi McKenzy,
I have moved your question to the DIY'er area.
Beth

[gt2003]

OK McKenzy, the big guys and gals seem absent for some reason. Let me tell you what I've come up with from the info. I've gathered over the last few weeks.

First off, I'm not familiar with the water sealant you used. So, the EFC-38 may not be the right choice. Maybe I can get someone else to chime in on that aspect. If it was an oil or water based stain then you should be OK. If it actually formed a clear film on top of the wood that is peeling now, you'll need something different. Please, post pics!

Now, If the stain is simply fading and doesn't look good I would venture to say that you are OK on the sanding part. After 8 months, the wood is probably worn enough to open up the pores so it will take a stain better. From what I've heard, the EFC-38 will also clean out the wood pores making them more accepting to stain.

I would go ahead and replace the screws before you do anything else. Then, clean with the EFC-38 and some type of deck brush (this should take care of the "bleeding" from what I've heard), brighten with the oxalic then apply your stain of choice. Either brush it on with a China bristle brush or spray it on, your choice.

Personally I ordered the Armstrong-Clark stain. Look at page 10 of the Armstrong-Clark thread and see the job just completed with their cedar stain.

Come on ladies and gentlemen. Help this fella out. Let me know how things go McKenzy, and be sure to post pics of the deck now so the big boys (and girls, Beth) know what you are up against. I'll go try to find some more info. on your sealant and see if I can help out a little more. Take care, Greg

[bigchaz]

I didn't realize you could get that injectable stripper for a hose, but that would be an ideal choice for stripping. That Olympic wont be too tough to get off but Im not sure how the rails will work if your not pressure washing them. Scrub brush on the floor will give you the agitation you need to get the stain up but unless you can scrub all the rails I dont know that garden hose rinsing will be enough to take it off.

[gt2003]

McKenzy, I just checked out the Olympic website. Is the stuff you bought in the blue can, see the link below? If so, it looks like you'll be just fine with the EFC-38 as your cleaner. I was worried that you might have applied some sort of polyurethane on top of the wood. That would have been a nightmare.

OK pros, here is the link to the product McKenzy used. Will EFC-38 do the job?

Olympic Stain - Clears

[mckenzy]

on this page, it's the red and gold square can, and it's clear, with no stain. We put on just one coat:

Olympic Stain - Clears

It's not peeling and I do think if I use that PowerSolve stripper attached to my house and scrub with a brush, it just might come off. Then the Brightener. If we need to sand a bit, we can do that. Just want to be sure it accepts the stain and we might do 2 coats. I like the Armstrong Clark cedar stain too, so thanks for that.

Gotta get my camera out of the box... one of these days. I should do before-and-after shots!

[Beth n Rod]

My responses in blue:

Originally Posted by mckenzy

Hi, Greg from over at gardenweb suggested I visit here and ask a few ?'s. Thanks Greg!

I have a small cedar deck with a landing and 2 staircases w/railings, built in Sept. The builder didn't offer any info on sealing, so I went to local big box and got some Olympic WaterGuard Waterproofing Clear Sealant for wood. My buddy sanded the wood really smooth and applied one coat. Then the torrential Pac NW rains started and rained like stink for 8 months!

Now the thing looks like crap-ola. Gray, dirty, dull and w/black streaks because the builder used the wrong screws and they bled. My new carpenter can replace the screws but can I get the black stains out? And, do that before or after new screws are in?
These are called tannin bleed stains, oxalic acid will help to alleviate them.
They are caused by the extractives in the cedar which are water soluble to be leached out of the wood at the point of fastener insertion which upon drying turn greyish black. Rust from the fasteners would be reddish brown. Either way, the acid will help to remove or at least lighten them up.

From what I've read, we shouldn't have sanded the cedar (pores closed so didn't accept the sealant very well). Who knew?
No Higher than 80 grit for exterior wood. Regardless, cedar is very soft and compacts with the simplest use like walking. This means that the wood fibers are being crushed which in turn makes the surface susceptible to degradation faster than Pressure Treated Pine. Using an oil based product to condition the wood first is suggested here then upon subsequent maintenance cleanings, use an oil based product that has a stronger pigmentation base that will last (horizontally) for about a year with only the need for cleaning and recoating.

What product should I use now? RAD sounded good but company's having problems. I don't want to use a power washer, what about PowerSolve Injectable Stripper/Cleaner and Brightening Agent? Attaches to garden hose. Or, what about EFC-38 and Citralic Brightener? We can use a scrub brush and elbow grease with lots of hose rinsing. I want to a cedar tone semi transparent stain/sealer and considering the massive rain we get here, what's the best product so we don't have to go thru this again so soon?
With Cedar, I am sorry to say that the maintenance will be an annual one. This type of wood is difficult to maintain as it is delicate and only works well with oil based products that help to moisturize it and keep it flexible instead of hard and brittle.
The best product to use is one that will not require stripping each time.
My dog uses this area too so want to be sure nasty chemicals aren't mucking up the place.

I really appreciate the guidance and will buy online since the big box stores seem to have lower grade products.

Thanks for all your advice!

I will let the advice of others on products stand for your consideration but I thought I would add to the salient points so that you would know what to expect in the respective concerns you have raised.
Cedar is a beautiful wood, but it does require more frequent care.

Rod!~