Who has authority?

[MMI Enterprises]

good little article..where it come from?

oh, and what's a storm drain?..they all look like storm drains unless they capped and say sewer..

[Ron Musgraves]

Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves

We really dont have to talk about this issue anylonger. As theres the proof.... Dont put you crap in the storm drains and no worries baby.

Thats and epa link

[Tracy Handl]

What's above is well put Ron. I also do agree with your point that it is best to not haul your water off site. The question that started this thread was about the responsibilities of what to do with the wash water if on-site disposal is not an option. When possible it is best to keep wash water on site for disposal for all the reasons Ron listed in this thread. .......But sometimes you just have to manage it.

[Ron Musgraves]

Tracy, I'm talking with this county. the women i talked with gave me two different answers.

it seems they are confused about on site discharge as well as waht to do with when dumping. its ridiculous to impose these standards on contrators.

being responsibles and practical are important, but this is silly and is just setting the industry backwards.

We need to get these written either correctly or leave it alone.

Bythe way contrators, correctly is not spending 60 or 100 G's. triple that.

[Ron Musgraves]

So we wrote a BMP that we cant follow. Or who is suppose to follow?

I'm truly confused????

[MMI Enterprises]

Originally Posted by Tracy Handl

What's above is well put Ron. I also do agree with your point that it is best to not haul your water off site. The question that started this thread was about the responsibilities of what to do with the wash water if on-site disposal is not an option. When possible it is best to keep wash water on site for disposal for all the reasons Ron listed in this thread. .......But sometimes you just have to manage it.

Hu?.. I thought thread was about who is responsable on approving our off-site disposal via on-site sewer drain discharges and I don't think most of us as contractors really want the burden or responsabilities of figuring it all out. We already know what we want to do with it and where we want it to go and personally that is right there in the sewer drain. Responsabilites are full on the shoulders of the county sewer to say yea or nea.
In the end such dischagre really has to be classified as off site for all purposes and subject to the sewer police approval right?
Still interested here in how much responsability a contractor may suffer from the sewer police if what is going in a customers drain is no different then anything else they put in there such as mop water, kitchen sink or dishwasher water, or laundry water. And am still interested in how much relief may be had by way of a disclosure statement approved by customer. Does that relieve fines upon us or no? I've seen it floating around somewhere on the boards or somewhere in the BMP info's and it says to the effect that the customer knows a fine system is in place and it may even go so far as to make them sign that they have went through the approval process.
I suppose when it is said "it is best to keep wash water on site" that it means any of three otpions. Can mean flowing it to ground, letting it evap, or sending to on-site sump system.

[Ron Musgraves]

if what is going in a customers drain is no different then anything else they put in there such as mop water, kitchen sink or dishwasher water, or laundry water.

We can sell this if you want, the truth is that you dont know what your picking up.

Its not dish water nor mop water. You cant clean it safely to discharge, only a pretreatment facility can assure that the water is clean enough.

Is this practicle? NO

on site is the way to go, no off property discharge and no CWA. Re-read the EPA guidelines.

[MMI Enterprises]

I fail to see how the EPA guidelines come to play when the thread is about the line running between us and the water treatment plant period end of story. Is a closed loop with nothing to do with the CWA.
I'll clarify my point in that what goes down sewer drain from a mop bucket is just as much unknown as what a pressure washer reclaim system sucks up and truth is that no truth is in question as it frankly is common understanding between a sewer and their customer that they are gonna take these common byproducts from daily chores. There is nothing different on outside walk then what walked in on floor off it. Only exception is gas pads and blacktop runnoff.
What is it youy think I am selling?
..Really Ron.. I haven't the foggiest idea what yer point is at this point with the on-site stuff. You want everyone to have built in sumps or to just let it evap off and polute the grounds of the facility.. please be clear..I don't understand where yer coming from is all.

[Ron Musgraves]

Really Ron.. I haven't the foggiest idea what yer point is at this point with the on-site stuff. You want everyone to have built in sumps or to just let it evap off and polute the grounds of the facility.. please be clear..I don't understand where yer coming from is all.

The code requires the property comply my freind.


I have had many contaminates in my wash water. comparing mop water to the exterior of a building is silly Kevin.

Like the faxing thing when you realize that your wrong you will chnage your mind and claim you knew the truth the entire time.

Have a good chrictmas.

[Ron Musgraves]

Bythe way, CWA is all about quidelines on off property discharge and protecting the eviroment. Read the darn thing.

[MMI Enterprises]

In red for ya Ron..

Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves

The code requires the property comply my freind. Thanx.. so is that to say your just offering ideas and questioning the system same as I am or do you believe we cleaners overule and take away the property's mandate to comply and place it all on ourselves? See I am not disagreeing with you Ron persay. I haven't heard what you believe in is all. If your after pushing down our throats that peoples grime (regardless if residiential or commercial) does not deserve a free roll down the sewer then I just simply disagree with you in that is all. I believe the sewer system, by its very existance and goal of keeping the health and sanitation in order, is responsable in taking all that comes its way in normal grime or residue thereof in cleaning it from society. As if there is codes in place for industrial to do their own sumping systems due to hefty loads of polution from manufacture then they (the sewer) are there for everything else. Society as a whole makes the grime accumulations on a property by way of traffic and or commercial use that benefits the society. Call me a commy if ya like on this issue as really I do not believe I nor common facilities I clean should be responsable for the act of doing good deed in keeping the health and cleanliness up where there shouldn't be regulations placed in first place. Hey the other option is let it roll down the rivers or condense it into a smaller space on the property. Thats to say who is gonna mandate all commercial and residential have a sump that collects any possable runoff?. Not gonna happen..this is the real world where water is the cheapest and best general use solvent and it has its reprocusssions.


I have had many contaminates in my wash water. comparing mop water to the exterior of a building is silly Kevin. You want to discuss the real issues that I requoted of the original poster or you want to argue for no apparent reasoning?. Ok I'll entertain...
Ron, Do you mop or scrub floors? Do you deal regularly with the parkinglot blacktops walking in off the street and look at the waters and chems used to clean it. It is absolutely no different except for concentration. Aside from regular dirt, synthetic oils, and organic fats there is also the removal of coatings that are not just applied for looks. Facilities are under regulations of keeping slip resistance, sealed surfaces, and cleanliness. If one is gonna say that the property has no right to dump say 30gal of emulsified acrylic/urethane/silicone down THEIR only option (sewer) then so be it but I would ask what that person what their solution is.
Ask the fine people here that strip decks and I am sure they will claim they definately can produce more harmfull waste in coating removal then you could ever create in washing an exterior concrete surface. We've all seen the black runoff of exterior cleaning with or without chemical use...who has seen the stripped emulsions of a deck or floor with all it's caustics actually reclaimed from the ground? The only thing exterior grime has on interior is carbon based polution concentration levels. When you figure in that many facility have more interior space being used then is being pressure cleaned outdoors then the equation changes. As example.. I may service 10k of floor and dirty up 15 gal of water anywhere from everyday to every two week. That is conservatively 65 gal per mon. of neutral chems disolving anything and everything in way of oils walked in, dirt, fats, top coats of acrylic (milky look). Meanwhile I or another comes and washes but 4 k of walk once per month with nowhere near the same amount of polutants. If I was to go dump them 65gal outfront the health dept and everyone seeing it would freak out. Point is I pollute absolutely more then most any exterior guy except for pad cleaners..lol ..And that goes without remention of bi-yearly or yearly stripping duties... So here we are with thousands upon thousands of scrubbers being run in America every night and we are to ask why do we not take it to a hazardous dump..That would be comical fancifulness. Fact is exterior may deserve a sump but who is gonna mandate every retail/commercial place in America not be allowed to use their sewer?

Like the faxing thing when you realize that your wrong you will chnage your mind and claim you knew the truth the entire time. I was wrong on Faxing? and claimed I knew Ron's interpritation of truth..that's news to me Ron. Far as I remember I posed questions and as it turned out there is loopholes for some situations (even in Cali!!). We take advantage when we can. Your welcome to point out the basis and I'll be glad to clarify as I often have to do with you in order to get along. You simply take me wrong Ron due to this form of communication or perhaps yer reading and my writing skills..haha

Have a good chrictmas. ..Merry Christmas to you Ron..
..need to buy a Wii for that tv?

[MMI Enterprises]

Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves

Bythe way, CWA is all about quidelines on off property discharge and protecting the eviroment. Read the darn thing.

Why read it when it should not apply between a fellas sewer drain and the sewer facility? If a place is gonna be built then the sewer should be ordered to take on both the exterior and interior pollution burdens if they are exempt from onsite sump systems. If they heavy polluters like found in industry and built before the latest 2 foot thick encyclopedia of 'up for interpritation' regs then either leave them alone, build them a sump, or better yet...order the sewer to upgrade to allow for the regs that society put in place...awe utopia

[Ron Musgraves]

Originally Posted by MMI Enterprises

Why read it when it should not apply between a fellas sewer drain and the sewer facility? If a place is gonna be built then the sewer should be ordered to take on both the exterior and interior pollution burdens if they are exempt from onsite sump systems. If they heavy polluters like found in industry and built before the latest 2 foot thick encyclopedia of 'up for interpritation' regs then either leave them alone, build them a sump, or better yet...order the sewer to upgrade to allow for the regs that society put in place...awe utopia

WOW Kevin, i'm lost