Do You Recover?

[One Tough Pressure]

Originally Posted by Ernie Greese

Read on another board about a truck washer with a suction system running on a generator. The generator ran out of gas, stopped and the water started overflowing his dams. Just so happened the water department inspector came along with a crew. Opened the manhole and ordered him to suck the little soap and water out of the storm drain. No fine just a lot of finger waving. He had to write a letter of explanation to the city. If he didn't have a sucking system the city would have really nailed him. EPA would have had him pay to have the sewer sucked clear to the nearest river according to the city man.

How about a link to this other site?

[Dave O]

Alan here I happened to run across it awhile ago.



http://www.powerwashnetwork.com/show...&threadid=6634

[One Tough Pressure]

Thanks Dave,

[Mike Williamson]

The PWNA will lose members if they REQUIRE reclaim equipment. Heck, for 95% of my work, I don't have to reclaim...Is the PWNA going to come inspect my rig to assure I have the equipment? I'm not aware of any areas in Florida enforcing water reclamation. I don't reclaim at all, and have no interest in doing so until and unless my area begins enforcing.

Maybe the PWNA should also require that contractors prove they are insured, locally licensed, keep their equipment maintained in safe working condition, etc etc etc?

[Jon]

Mike it is not the PWNA who is requiring reclaim, it is the Clean Water Act of 1972 that says NO water other then rain water down the storm drains.

Florida will end up in the dog house since they are required to enforce the law as every state is.

What are you going to do when someone stops, comes up to you and indentfies himself as Florida EPA and ask to see your reclaim or recapture equipment? your going to say I don't have one and bingo you might find your equipment towed away, might get a verbal warning or written or fined, depends on how nice the Florida EPA person is.

You know the laws, as all do and yes many still could care less, that "it won't happen to me" thing. Trust me someday your turn to get caught will happen.

What then, quit the business or spend the money to be 100% legal?

not picking on you, this could be for everyone in Florida and all states for that matter.

The early bird will reap the profits by being ahead of his/her competitors.

Jon

[Mike Williamson]

Jon:

I know it is the CWA that we're talking about, but I was referring to someone's post a few posts ago about the thought of the PWNA requiring contractors to have reclaim equipment in order to attain membership.

I realize that eventually enforcement will come in this area. How far off that will be is anyone's guess. This year? Next year? 5 years? 10? I just can't justify the added cost and time for something that no one here is going to pay extra for. When that time comes, yes, of course I'll do what it takes to become legal.

The likelihood of a Florida EPA person showing up (if there is such a person doing such things at this time) at the time I happen to be doing something that causes wash water to enter the sewer is pretty slim. I'll deal with that if/when it happens.

If I were to be working primarily doing commercial flatwork, I might think about doing it now. I don't. I do 95% or more residential, mostly roofs and housewashes...some driveways.

[PLD]

Jon,

I realize it's a lot different game is you're doing comercial flatwork. If I'm hearing you correctly, I'm legally required to reclaim the househould water that goes running down the curb (and to the drain) when I'm doing a residential driveway cleaning? If that's true, is there anyone out there reclaiming this water?

Philip

[Mike Williamson]

Yes, there are folks reclaiming that water, most of them in areas where they are required by local municipalities to do so. I've never seen anyone reclaiming anything here in my area.

[One Tough Pressure]

I reclaim my residential water. Most of the curb drains here are stenciled with "Don't dump, drain to ocean" or lake or stream, just depending on the area. Some of the upper scale neighborhoods have a local lake, as well as the golf courses that we have way to many of. People are very peticular when you tamper with their scenic view.

The public here is probably more educated to water laws than most others due to this stenciling of the curbs. In order to get a business license in my City, you need to have a well written plan describing how you will keep water out of the storm drain system. As far as I know, they have not actually inspected anyones equipment.

My City does look for violations during the day, but are not staffed well enough to patrol at night. The City guy tells me that the local PD has been briefed on what to look for, but that may be a tale to scare people. Our local Fire Dept gets calls all the time for suspicious substances flowing in the gutters and Arroyo. They may be watching us as well.

[newlook]

Mike,

There is no easy answer to this and you brought up some good points. It would be an impossible tasks for the PWNA to ensure that all members be in compliance but they could make sure that all members are aware of the Law and strongly encourage them to get into compliance. The point I was trying to convey is that I feel very strong in believing that the PWNA needs to address this and provide direction to the industry (members and non-members). If the PWNA looks the other way on this then what does that say for the organization and it's creditability. As mentioned earliers, it is a tough situation and I certainly did appreciate your post.

[Jon]

There is good and bad here, the bad that I will speak of is in San Diego where the police, fire and even ambulance drivers are now trained to pay attention to us guys and turn us in pronto, say at 3 AM an ambulance is on the way to a serious accident and notices a pressure washer not reclaiming the water, they get on the two way and turn them in.

That is going to far in my book. Their job is not to look for pressure washers not obeying the law but to save lives.

Police are trained to catch law breakers and other things but not to turn us in.

Now the fire department might be ok since they have a more direct interest in water BUT can you picture them on their way to a fire stopping to cite us?

California has EPA personal out at night now, I believe I read where as of Jan. of this year they hired 10 people to cover the whole state. LOL but they are working with local communities.

If you do homes your pretty much cleared as long as the water stays on the property. So they say, some over zealous new inspector might not agree with that.

Where I live the two counties, Riverside and San Bernardino now have a program where we demostrate our equipment and get put on a list of pressure washers that reclaim. Businesses call those pressure washers knowing if you screw up they will turn you in and bingo hefty fines or worst.

I just heard about that a few nights ago when I was fueling up and met another pressure washer, he gave me a copy of the letter the city give you after you pass.

It states clearly it is not an endorsement but indirectly it since to get on that list you have to demo and pass.

I think that is what it is coming and it is a matter of time before it reaches all states and cities.

[Rick G]

I would say FL, and most states from what I have read, are 5, 10, or more years away from ANY form of reclaim education or regulation. I bought into this whole 'reclaiming thing' and lost nothing but time and money. I thought it would be a good way to differentiate myself from the competition but it backfired, BIG TIME. I could not find ANYONE at the state or local level that even knew what I was talking about. I called the local water treatment plant, the South Florida Water Management Office, the County Business Affairs Office, etc etc and after being transferd from one person to another the only response I got was, 'What?' Same thing with city government. There was not one customer who even heard of such a thing with the exception of a guy at a large corporation that said his insurance carrier asked him about it, and he had no clue what the ins co. was talking about, I had to explain it to him! Not one customer was interested at all. My prices did not change but my closing rate dropped like a stone when I mentioned reclaiming. They either assumed it would cost more or didn’t want to open that can of worms. I can appreciate the fact that there are some states that regulate this. BUT you have to acknowledge that California and even some New England states are very different on so many levels that it not a true representation of the rest of the county. I can also appreciate that Jon, Alan and a few others have successful reclaim operations, but I wish that those of you that do reclaim wouldn’t result to posting scare tactics trying to convince the rest of us that our business are at stake for not reclaiming. Trust me, I know all about the CWA and it being federal and that overriding state and local, I have pages and pages on it. I also know there are no Federalies or 'Florida EPA Officials' (those three words together in the same sentance is funny in its self) in black coats running around wrighting tickets. Florida in the 'Dog House' come on, give me a break. I have also heard the story about the one guy in Cali that was jailed for not paying his fines for not reclaiming, but again we all know about California.

If you want to target those very few clients that do require reclaiming, great. If not do the right thing and make calls, talk to your local government, do the necessary research on your local and state laws and their enforcement techniques and conduct yourself accordingly. Don’t get scared into buying unnecessary equipment because the PWNA (trying to sell you a class) or some other cleaner tells you to. Make up your own mind.

The straw that broke my back was watching the bright yellow truck from the county clean all the dirt and gum off the islands at the stop lights using hot water and chems and the water going right down the storm drain. I took a few pics of this just incase someone here tries to get cute and start taken pics of people working and turn them in, like the guy in, you guessed it, CALIFORNIA!

Take it from someone who has lived it, dont do anything without researching it first.

[One Tough Pressure]

Rick, I have heard the same story from others that were recovering and then found that it did not suit them or their customers.
For one reason or another they abandoned the idea and stuck to just washing. Some are still in business and some aren't. I agree that many places are so blind to the laws that the chance of getting caught are virtually non existent. I have never been approached, nor have I seen any EPA type people around my worksites. I have been told by another washer in the area that an EPA lives here and he is on night patrol, but I have yet to see the guy. Maybe he has come by, and just kept going, who knows.

[Rick G]

I don’t want to give the wrong impression; I care about our environment and its future that’s why I started to offer reclaiming. I have two daughters so I feel obligated to do whatever I can to preserve it for them. But I also feel obligated to get them braces and put them through collage! Where I live it’s just a non-issue, therefor not a smart business decision. Its just disheartening to me to here you, Jon, tell someone that their truck could be towed away for not reclaiming. It’s just soooooo far from the truth, in most of the areas of the country. When the time comes and enforcement becomes a reality here Ill be the first back in the game. There are many advantages to it, if it’s economically feasible. But I’m here to make money, and I don’t feel guilty about that.

[willow6924]

I am a newcomer to the Grime Scene and happy to get such good information and to read the opinions of so many other pressure washing professionals. I do not belong to an organization because I am not convinced that an organization is going to solve my problems. I have to solve them. If such an organization exists that will provide the lead in this critical issue, I certainly would entertain joining them. However, in general, professional organizations don't want to rile up their membership and sit on the fence on issues such as this one. With respect to reclaiming, I have been struggling to respond 100% to the requirements of the Clean Water Act. I will be successful but finding the appropriate quality equipment is difficult. I will find the money to invest and believe that in the long term it will pay off even though the company I work for probably could be considered "small fry". I am using the contacts that are available at the Grime Scene to finalize my purchase and to begin reclaiming as a matter of principle. I am convinced that it will pay off in additional work and eventually to better profitability in the long term. Currently I reclaim if there is any chance that the runoff will go into the storm drain. I use berms and vacuum (the old, hard way) the runoff and dispose of it into a sanitary system. If the runoff will evaporate to the atmosphere I clean up the best I can and allow it to do so. However, I have a city now that is requiring 100% pickup of the waste water produced so I have to get my system in place pronto. Any advice you can give about systems,modifications to systems, etc. would be greatly appreciated because the topic is currently "under discussed". I feel that we do a great job of cleaning and I want to one day say that we do a great job of reclaiming. Idealistic, no. Practical, yes.