Federal rule bans residential carwashing

[One Tough Pressure]

Federal rule bans residential carwashing CLIFTON HEIGHTS, PA — A rule limiting the amount of stormwater runoff will prohibit home carwashing, according to the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES).

The NPDES is a new federal stormwater management regulation that several Pennsylvania communities are discussing ways to enforce, The Daily Times reported.

This federal act disallows any surface water other than rain from being discharged into a storm sewer. This would include basement water, rain gutter water, carwashing water, and any oil or other foreign substances.

These are now called illegal activities and could lead to fines, the East Lansdowne Borough website reported.

Once adopted, water runoff will have to be redirected into grassy areas adjacent to residences instead of into the street gutters heading for storm sewers. The communities of Clifton Heights, Yeadon, Upper Darby, Lansdowne, East Lansdowne and Millbourne have joined forces to hold public workshops about the ban, the article said.

Local city council members have pointed out that the law is not going to be easy to enforce, and some of it is left up to interpretation. Once communities adopt the stormwater act, it's the municipality's responsibility to place stickers on storm sewers and fine residents for violations, the paper reported.

http://www.carwash.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=48664

[One Tough Pressure]

New rules could leave residents high and dry in Clifton

LINDA REILLY , Times Correspondent 06/28/2004

CLIFTON HEIGHTS -- The days of washing your car in your driveway or in the street in front of your house may be numbered if the federal government has anything to say about it.
The Eastern Delaware County Council of Governments will provide information about the new rules and regulations related to stormwater runoff at a special meeting 6 p.m. Tuesday at the Clifton Heights Fire Department, 20 West Baltimore Ave. [/font]

The topic will be the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, a new federal stormwater management regulation that requires municipalities to prohibit surface water other than rainwater from being discharged into a storm sewer.


Once adopted, residents will no longer be able to wash their car in the driveway or street in front of their home or empty a backyard pool into the street.

Water from basement sump pumps and water runoff from rain spouts will have to be redirected into grassy areas adjacent to residences instead of into the street gutters heading for storm sewers.

The free workshop is sponsored by the East DelcoCOG, comprised of the communities of Clifton Heights, Yeadon, Upper Darby, Lansdowne, East Lansdowne and Millbourne, to discuss ways of getting involved in improving the quality of the Darby and Cobbs creeks.

East Lansdowne Engineer Eileen Mulvena and Borough Manager Marius Russo discussed the issue at a recent council meeting, noting the new regulation prohibits sump pumps, rain gutter water, runoff from washing a car and any oil or other foreign substances going into the storm sewer.

"We have to notify residents," Russo said. "The law mandates that all water be clear and only rain water."

Mulvena pointed out that the law is not going to be easy to enforce.

"The waters are contaminated and it’s hurting the environment," Mulvena said, noting the status of the storm sewers that empty into the waterways "has been forgotten for so many years. It’s our responsibility to clean it up."

Once communities adopt the stormwater act, Russo noted stickers will be placed on storm sewers and residents could be fined for violations.

The new regulation has been posted on East Lansdowne borough’s Web site, and residents will be reminded in the borough newsletter.

Additional information on the new requirements is also available at www.epa.gov/nps.

Tuesday’s workshop is open to any resident in the area of the Darby-Cobbs Creek Watershed.

Speakers include representatives from the Pennsylvania Environmental Council, the Delaware County Planning Department, the Delaware County Conservation District, the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection and the Darby Creek Valley Association

[CCPC]

You no what I find funny about the clean water no pullution fanatisism is that the water ways today are 50 times less pulluted then they were 75 years ago. In the old days they would dump raw sewage, garbage, bio waste and anything else they did'nt want to look at right into the rivers, lakes etc. GROSS! Now, with hi tech water treatment facilities and more stringent enforcment you can swim in these water ways without endangering the prospect of having a few childern some day. That's a good thing, but enforcing laws that ban Joe home owner's car washing water from entering a storm drain, I say enviromental nuts take a long nap and leave well enough alone.

[John Doherty]

I'll bet that the local carwash owners are somehow involved in this, they have a real strong lobby. Great, now every guy who can't wash his car is gonna be a water cop, 'if I can't, you can't', what a mess.

I run into something similar here with the water restrictions, 'I can't water my lawn every day, all day, so I'm sure you can't be pressure washing'. What a mess!

JD

[Jon]

Now here is where I draw the line as a private citizen, if I want to wash my vehicles in front of my home I will do so and EPA be damned.

Sorry but I still say if they stop me from doing that I will demand they stop all the grease, oil, gas and other stuff from going down the storm drains in heavy rain.

Let them build filters on every corner.

JD your 100% right about car washes being behind it, and if you notice the cost keeps going up, I pay close to $12 bucks to have my truck washed, they think it takes more water to was a pickup then a full size car. LOL.

And they don't even do the inside of the bed so go figure.

[PressurePros]

The boroughs listed are right in the center of my serving area. Interesting stuff. I am set up for water reclaimation, but have not used it in residential work due to the added cost to the homeowners. I was literally cleaning a house in Upper Darby on Thursday when up walks a guy from the borough council (the homeowner later told me whom he was). He sticks his finger in the runoff coming off the driveway and smells it. Here I am in a respirator cleaning my little heart out. I had a quick conversation with the guy assuring him that the chemicals were biodegradable and that the main constituents of the wash were basically a carwash like detergent and chlorine. How I love the word "biodegradable" and its ambiguity. Unless your using plutonium to clean a house, what ISN'T classified as biodegradable? Well nedless to say, I now understand why this guy was more than a little suspicious of my explaination. Thanks for this article and I will be attending these workshops and borough meetings to keep you guys informed of the outcome. I hope this doesn't turn into a witch hunt.

[Jon]

Pressue Pro how close are you to Brockton PA ?

[PressurePros]

Jon, I am about 90 miles away. It is near the Allentown area. I am located about 6 miles from Philadelphia, on whats called The Main Line.

[redinbaugh]

Wow, I never new Ca and Pa were competing against each other to see whos first to strip there residence of all their rights.What a scam.
How are fire fighters going to comply?
Who will pay the fine if a water main breaks.
Can you wash your dog outside? If only on the lawn, then is there a minimum slope req for my lawn. Example:How do you determine how much of a length of lawn you need and at what angle minimum needed to sucesesfully evaporate the enviormental cotastrophy from reaching the sensitive environment of my concrete walkway.
Does any one have a formula that works for them?If so post the deminsions of your lawn so homeowners with like size lawns can use it.Maybe a detailed drawaing to scale on a topographic map to help pinpoint proper location of dog.
Remember,lots of factors to figure into calculations.GPM,TYPE OF GRASS, SOIL COMPACTION,WIND SPEED,OUTSIDE TEMP,WATER TEMP,SIZE OF DOG,


Ok Ok enough already.
Seriously, you guys all need to attend this meeting.I know it sounds rediculous.
However,Think of the revenew producrd by one stuipid little law.
Tickets from enforcement.
Need to hire personel to enforce.
Need new county office with staff to handle paper work.
Need training courses to differentiate between rain water and pollution.
The list goes on.The bottom line is financial gain.The state stands to gain from this and other rediculious laws. Thats why we have rediculouse laws $$$. Probably going to need a new tax to help with added expense.

fight it.....OR BITE IT.

The plus side is you could be the first pressure washing company in town to come up with 100% reclamation technology.Make up your own training course and certification.
Make city require all power washers to operate with liscense.Offer training at such a high cost that it reduces legal competition.Then offer to wash everything in town.
Mention to all property owners that any rain water that comes in contact with any banned substance (dirt) and then runs into a enviornmentally protected collection facility,(gutter)they can then be fined.
Business will skyrocket.

Whos the governor of Pa any way?Are they related to the Kennedys by chance.

[PressurePros]

Originally Posted by redinbaugh

The plus side is you could be the first pressure washing company in town to come up with 100% reclamation technology.Make up your own training course and certification.
Make city require all power washers to operate with liscense.Offer training at such a high cost that it reduces legal competition.Then offer to wash everything in town.
Mention to all property owners that any rain water that comes in contact with any banned substance (dirt) and then runs into a enviornmentally protected collection facility,(gutter)they can then be fined.
Business will skyrocket.

Whos the governor of Pa any way?Are they related to the Kennedys by chance.

I like the way you think. Rendell (former Philadelphia mayor) is governor

[jsavoy]

Seems impossible to inforce.

[One Tough Pressure]

It will rely alot on calling in your neighbor. If one person in your neighborhood gets caught as the City drives by, then they will be very upset and then call in everyone else, so that they feel better. It can ruin entire neighborhoods.

It will not apply to Water line breaks, unless it carries sewage and then every city assesses fines for that. Water from Firefighting is exempt, unless of course they are washing cars at the local firehouse.

[Beth n Rod]

And who didnt see this coming?

Robert Hinderliter has been lobbying for years to head off the carwash industry from determining how and where wash water is to be handled, and by whom!

Unfortunately, these laws can be projected across the board unless WE, the pw'ers in general get involved and keep local legislators from putting us out of business.

Maybe this is a wake up call?
Rod~

[One Tough Pressure]

Originally Posted by PressurePros

I am set up for water reclaimation, but have not used it in residential work due to the added cost to the homeowners.

What type of equipment are you using?

[PressurePros]

Alan,
I use a vacu-boom setup. I use the same type of separator you do to reuse water. At restaurants its mainly a capture situation as I can discard the water via sump directly into a grease trap. I use a 30" Steel Eagle for my concrete work.