Intermediate Question Need help bidding a huge complex

[mikekonnie]

We are bidding on a huge complex consisting of a motel, store front buildings and apartments. The owners wants 4 bids submitted on different sections of the complex. The complex consists of single story shops connected together, 1 set on one side and the other set on the other side of the lot. A two story motel at the end of the lot with 2 wings in an L shape. Set of 3 apartment buildings in the back with another paved parking lot. All the building are stucco. They want all the loose paint, cobwebs or any residue cleaned of preparing them for painting plus all walk ways and side walks cleaned. The owner says we don't have to recover. We figured we can do all the work without chemicals just hot water using a turbo in most places. We have used this combination on other stucco buidings with good results when preparing for painting. There are a lot of windows to contend with on all the bids.

Bid #1 consists of their office on one side of the parking lot which is connected to other retail stores and another building across the lot connected to other store fronts. The office building is 620 sf with 248 sf of overhang and 248 sf of side walk. The other building 2056 sf with overhang. Side walks 416 sf. Total of 2924 sf with 664 sf side walk.
Stucco is pretty good with cob webs. There is a place on the 1st building we have to remove some lead paint but it's not a very big area.

Bid #2 is the motel. We are going to need a lift which runs $300 for pickup and delivery plus $160 a day. The motel is 2 stories with 5' high tile roofing which is painted red with lead paint. The owner wants all the paint taken off. It's about 1080 sf. Total of 10,528 sf with overhangs, breeze ways, roof. Sidewalks and walk ways 1728 sf.

Bid #3 The rest of the single story shops connected to the 1st bid. In back of the shops on one side is a cement sloping fence that goes from 2' to 8'. Fences overhangs and many corners and windows totals about 4232 sf. Side walks 4196 sf.

Bid #4 consists of 3 two story apartment complexs. Complex A and B have a total of 12,032 sf each and 1,792 sf walk ways each. Complex C has a total of 9,056 sf with 656 sf of walk way. We will need a lift for this job too.

We have never done a complex of this magnitude before. We were thinking on charging .20 sf for walls overhangs and tile on all the jobs. We included the windows in the sq. footage. We were planning on charging .10 sf for all walk ways and side walks. Is this a reasonable bid?
We figured on absorbing the cost of the lift in the .20 bid.

We are thankful and appreciate any help.

[Cajun Cleanin]

Do you have to be lic in lead removal in Cal.?If you do than the price will go way up as the recovery of all the water used to remove the lead will have to happen.Then there is the disposal of the lead and paint.

I ran a job in Louisiana with alot of asbestos and lead removal and it was big $$$ and very time consuming.

I'm not trying to throw you of the job but be very diligent in your research of the laws abd regulations surrounding lead.

There is a 1.8 million dollar lawsuit going on in Baldwin county Al. where a paint contractor started preping painted awnings at a elementary school and contaminated the school grounds and interior buildings and the cleanup operation went like 90 days!!! The cost was right at 1.5 million plus the downtime for the school.

The school system is not responsible for their lead paint the people who are removing it are.So you will be the fall guy for any contamination.

[mikekonnie]

Originally Posted by Cajun Cleanin

Do you have to be lic in lead removal in Cal.?If you do than the price will go way up as the recovery of all the water used to remove the lead will have to happen.Then there is the disposal of the lead and paint.

I ran a job in Louisiana with alot of asbestos and lead removal and it was big $$$ and very time consuming.

I'm not trying to throw you of the job but be very diligent in your research of the laws abd regulations surrounding lead.

There is a 1.8 million dollar lawsuit going on in Baldwin county Al. where a paint contractor started preping painted awnings at a elementary school and contaminated the school grounds and interior buildings and the cleanup operation went like 90 days!!! The cost was right at 1.5 million plus the downtime for the school.

The school system is not responsible for their lead paint the people who are removing it are.So you will be the fall guy for any contamination.

Thanks for the info. The owner said they were going to handle all that. I will check a little more thoroughly. I do have a full recovery rig so it wouldn't be a problem. I'm not really sure if it is lead. I just assumed it could be. But it really doesn't look like it has been painted that many years ago.

[MMI Enterprises]

Mike, show us some pics.. can't help but shake my head at the idea that you think your going to remove all this lead paint. They sure it is lead paint? Haven't been that way in awhile now but just can't picture anthing newer up that way that would present as such.
You use turbo on buildings for prep? Yer a brave soul mang!

ps- such stripping should be worth like 50x them flat work rates you mentioned.

[mikekonnie]

Originally Posted by MMI Enterprises

Mike, show us some pics.. can't help but shake my head at the idea that you think your going to remove all this lead paint. They sure it is lead paint? Haven't been that way in awhile now but just can't picture anthing newer up that way that would present as such.
You use turbo on buildings for prep? Yer a brave soul mang!

ps- such stripping should be worth like 50x them flat work rates you mentioned.

Yes I have used a turbo to clean stucco for repair and painting with really good results. The other contractors that had to do the plastering and painting were really happy with the results and so was the owner. It's how you use the equipment. My boy has been doing this type of work for 11 years and is good at it. He knows when to use the turbo and switch to another tip.

As for the lead paint I know the stucco is not lead the only part I was concerned that could be lead was the little tile part on the roof of the motel. No the owner didn't tell us there was lead paint on the site. All the stucco looks like it has been painted a few years back and isn't in that bad of shape. It's a horrible color.

I'm glad you are an expert on all the buildings up north here, because I have lived and worked here for 61 years and I,m not. My boy has been born and raised here and been in the pressure washing business the last 11 years and he hasn't ran into a couple of buildings that have lead paint. most of the commercial complexes have been stripped of lead paint and repainted since lead paint has gotten so much exposure years ago.

I asked for an honest answer. The owner isn't worried about the complex being lead paint or they would have told us. They definitely wouldn't tell us not to worry about recovery. This isn't the only complex they own. If we do find lead paint we will definitely tell the owner and they will handle it in the propper manner.

I gave all the square footage of all the buildings and was asking a simple question as to price. Even though my son has a lot of experience he hasn't such a massive complex.

I guess we will deal with it on our own.

[Joe Ortiz]

WoW!!

[StainlessDeal]

First off, Mikekonnie, nobody is attacking you. People are trying to help because there are several points you mention that make it seem as if you need a little guidance. Let me help you.

1. Please fill in your signature information. It is required here, and will help you get more, and more helpful replies.

2. You mentioned lead, not anybody here. Lead abatement is no joke, and can have dire legal ramifications as well as health concerns. It is not a simple matter of recovering water.

3. Rcovery is necessary unless there is some other method to contain the runoff. The simple rule to remember is: "No off property discharge. Process water (any water that has been through your PWer) may not enter any waterway of the US." There is more, but in no respect can your customer dictate whether or not recovery is required. You will be held responsible if you are cited. Your customer probably will too. Do your due diligence, don't bet your business on your customer's word.

4. If you come asking for help, don't be surprised when people ask questions. We need clarification to know how we would approach the bid you are discussing. A quick example is your lift price being hidden in the higher priced bid. In my neck of the woods, people want that itemized, generally. They will at least wonder at the differing rates.

5. Size matters, but not much. There are a lot of pros here that bid big jobs every day, and that will help you, but your experience with your area on smaller jobs may well be a better guide. Flatwork prices vary wildly, sometimes from county to county, and assuredly from state to state across the US.

Don't get in a huff here, people will help, but you have to give good information and be receptive to our worries. We treasure our reputation as an industry of educated, experienced professionals that are entitled to charge reasonable rates for doing excellent work using professional equipment and techniques, without damaging the property of our customers.

If you don't like that, then yes, you "will have to deal with it on (y)our own".

I genuinely hope you stick around here, and I welcome you to TGS. I hope you find the answers you seek here, or wherever you look.

[mikekonnie]

I'm sorry I got everybody in an up roar about lead paint. I just found a close up of the roof which concerned my boy and it definitely isn't lead paint. My boy does all the work and is the one with the knowledge out in the field. I take care of all the finances and run the operation so I might have gave some misleading information.

Yes my boy has stripped a building of paint, (not lead paint), fully recovering the water and all paint strippings. We have one of the larger Hydro-tek recovery and recycle units on board our trailer. It happened to be a county building in the middle of town.

I get a little upset when somebody puts another person down without knowing anything about them or their business or equipment. Like I said the owner who just bought the property we are bidding has several properties and has probably dealt with lead paint in the past. I'm sure the owners aren't going to take any chances on a law suit or fine.

I apologize if I upset anybody.

[MMI Enterprises]

Mike, Fail to see anybody putting you down. I asked you questions as they are legit concerns surrounding your bid. It is not everyday that people strip a roof let alone one said to contain lead paint. Regardless of lead or not, such surely is not an easy job nor something entered into lightly. You didn't mention a pricing on stripping and now frankly since you mention your boy does it and not you I really have no choice but to ask what do you think should be charged to strip a roof of paint..I've no real idea as I never done such. Ya gonna turbo it off slick tiles or chem strip it?. Is it slick tile to where it may come off mechanically alone?
I am by no means an expert on roofs or your area buildings. Relatives had meat shop up there and I hunt that way so am but casual visitor.
To ease your mind on lead I can tell you lead hasn't been used since the 70's and I can't imagine much is still intact but for on old buildings that were coated over. Painting a roof makes for quik failure due to exposure and only thing I am seeing this way is dyed roofs lately (some perspective to others...Redding/Redbluff is one hot motha of an area!)

[mikekonnie]

Kevin T., as to our conversation on phone I just wanted everybody to know that Kevin and I talked on the phone and there is no hard feelings either way. I apologized to him and enjoyed talking with him. Kevin if this goes through I haven't been kicked off of posting. It was just a glitch like you said.

[newlook]

Glad to hear that things are smooth. I am down I-5 from you Jeff and maybe 30 minutes from Kevin. I know some washers right across the OR border and up in WA state.

Was through Redding last Sept. ....beautiful country up there. Back in my fire days I even fought some wildland fires up in your neck of the woods.

You should be fine on your bid. One thing you may want to ask the owner regarding pricing is see whether or not he will let your son get up on the roor and run your turbo nozzle for a 15 min....from there calculate your area cleaned vs. 15 min. ....this should give you at lease a basic idea of how much labor will be needed to get the roof done.....

[StainlessDeal]

Originally Posted by mikekonnie

Kevin T., as to our conversation on phone I just wanted everybody to know that Kevin and I talked on the phone and there is no hard feelings either way. I apologized to him and enjoyed talking with him. Kevin if this goes through I haven't been kicked off of posting. It was just a glitch like you said.

Not to worry about being kicked off posting, I have never altered a post of recommended a banning, and I sure wouldn't do that to you. You were just getting off to a rough start, I wasn't angry, and you weren't misbehaving, just rough starting.

Welcome to TGS, and I'm glad you got to speak with some good people from your neck of the woods. It sounds like you got what you needed.

I hope you didn't take my earlier post as coming down real hard, I just wanted to get my point across clearly, while still being helpful.

Anyway, all's well that ends well, let us know how the bid/job goes.

[mikekonnie]

Thankyou Carlos for your input. I will take your advise. The tile is heavy half round tile. The paint is thin and peeling off so hopefully it will come off easy. I had planned on testing an area anyway to make sure the turbo doesn't cut into it. The owner said if we damage a couple of tiles not to worry, but are very careful not too. The stucco is heavy texture and in pretty good shape and so is the paint. All it needs is cleaned and roughed up so the paint will stick. All the buildings are loaded with cob webs. I have done several preps for painting on stucco and have been pretty successful so far. If some of the stucco flakes they would rather have all the weak taken off and fixed now instead of it flaking after painting.

Thanks for your input.

Thankyou, also Stainless Deal, my dad is old school and will go toe to toe with anybody. When he is in the wrong he will apologize like in this instance. We enjoy the board and have learn a lot. He kept trying to apologize earlier yesturday but a glitch kept him from being able to post is the reason he thought we were baned.

Thankyou Jeff

[newlook]

Let us know how it works out Jeff.

If you are ever down in the Bay Area look me up!

[MMI Enterprises]

If he not in Aruba or playin around somewheres that is..