Ariz. starts its employer sanctions 'experiment'

[Ron Musgraves]

Jeff, every immigrants needs a CD player and car a home. Please

[HotShot]

See Jeff...we do agree on some things

Illegal immigration is destroying our country! We must stop the bleeding first by sealing the borders. After all, some of those illegals sneaking over the border could be coming here to harm us, could they not?

What ever happen to people being responsible for their actions? It isn't the gov't that would be responsible for sending people back to where they came from, it would be THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE ILLEGALLY HERE!!! They are NOT innocent bystanders, they had to sneak over here knowing that what they were doing is illegal. As much as I admire their hard work and family oriented way of life, they are breaking the law....period.

With that said, I would love to see some sort of temp workers program instituted. After it's instituted and an illegal is caught here that has not applied, and been granted permission, they should be sent back. After they have applied for the worker program and are accepted, THEN they would have the chance to apply for citizenship.

I have made many friends in the restaurant business that are probably illegal. I don't know for sure if they are or aren't and I don't ask, but when I see the owner pay them cash at the end of the night, then I'm assuming that they are. I know that most of them work 2-3 jobs and live with 4-5 other people in a little house. They send most of their money back to Mexico to take care of their family. I admire that work ethic, however, that does not give them a pass on breaking the law.

[Ron Musgraves]

Rissia built a wall, maybe we can go broke next.

NAFTA was made to make the rich richer.

This is all about immigration reform. That should have been handled first.

Now people will be hurt and the oportunity of making people in our own country unhappy and possibly anti.

[HotShot]

Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves

Rissia built a wall, maybe we can go broke next.

Russia was communist, that's why they went broke..we are capitalist...HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Now people will be hurt and the oportunity of making people in our own country unhappy and possibly anti.

Heaven forbid that somebody gets unhappy about seeing criminals be punished...

[Ron Musgraves]

I love debating this one with you ant, you can’t win this one.

You see the problem is that those programs for migrant and temp workers you talk about don’t exist anymore.

So let’s just say your sister was here and she for whatever reason had never gotten her citizenship when your family came from let’s say POLAND. (Polish people please don’t take that wrong I love polish food) I’m from south Chicago and if your polish you know I really do like the food.
I have relatives illegal in this country because they want a better life; they are white so they don’t ever get harassed by our local sheriff JOE.
Back to your illegal sister that never got her papers in order, her and the kids are caught by JOE on a normal traffic stop. Your brother in-law is a hard working guy let’s say for the US NAVY. You get the luxury of writing him because you sisters on her way back to POLAND with your natural born nephew she will not leave behind. Now in this case after much paper work they will be able to return because your brother -in law is a citizen or the US. Let’s just say now your sister in the same situation and she divorced or not married. BYE BYE because the next time you’ll see her is when you book a ticket back to Poland to visit her. On top of that she’s now a criminal. (Being married to and American doesn’t grant temporary status anymore)

Many Americans have family members from foreign countries that do not have visa’s or the visas expired.

I’ll admit I’m not happy about the aliens that are here without paper work. If we allowed them in like we used to I would be less sympathetic.
Heck, my grandparents’ are from the boat. I’m third generation, heck the country’s only 232 years old. How many generations could your relatives be from the boat?
Some of us have kept in touch with the old country and we have loved ones that want to be here and receive a better life.
I believe we should allow immigrants into this country again, I think that it was built by hardworking people with the dream to make a better place than the one they came from. It’s the greatest country in the world and I think we are headed for the same fate Russia had if we close hard working VCR DVD CAR BUYING immigrants out.

BOTTOM LINE WE NEED CHEAP LABOR LOCK IN MEXICO TO RUN ALL THOSE FACTORYS WE BUILT THERE IN THE LAST 20 Years!!!!!!!!!
By the way, the kids all born here will receive assistance regardless of their parents status. Regardless where they live, that’s why they were trying to change that also.

This is about humans fighting for a better life, I thank my father and grandfather for fighting for mine. We need to remember once were we came from and remember the labor and journey our ancestors made and return the favor. These people are not taking food or money off your plate. It’s not what the government brain washed you about. Terrorist, crooks, killers & thieves.
Open your eyes and you heart, for every one bad person that fits this profile are a thousand good people trying to eat.
Hispanics are the hardest working people I have ever known. Maybe you should get to know one; maybe you should reach out and understand they just want a piece of what our fathers wanted.

[Ron Musgraves]

Russia was communist, that's why they went broke..we are capitalist...HUGE DIFFERENCE.

we are capitalizing on cheap labor south of the border. Is that what your talking about?

Have you read that definition? closing borders and locking people out is a long way from that word.

Are we still industrialized TOO!!!

Have you even a clue at what I'm reffering too.

ANT, on the next one council with your buddys. Tell me something else i can actaully debate with you.

You see, our goverment is and has been moving jobs off the soil of the US for 30 plus years. ITS fact....

The factory workers wage in MExico actually has dropped in the past. Meanwhile that Nissan you drive that was assembled in KY(i dont know where) the parts are made in MEXICO. Ford has been making blocks in MEXICO since 1954.

LETS keep those criminals making us expensive cars, wait....lets only pay them 3 dollars a day....instead of a guy from michigan 24 and hour. Lets keep raising the price of th car.

ANT, your truck cost as much as my first home but being made by 3 dollar a day labor.

WHO are the CRIMINALS?????

KEEP MEXICANs IN MEXICO<<<<<<<<DARN criminalssss

[mbryan]

This subject was brought up in the recent debate and from what I could understand (very few of them are easy to understand) this was the most difficult issue on the table. Rudy and Ron Paul had the best answers, no amnesty, but give the illegals a penalty and allow them to stay in the country. The programs they proposed had several layers, but ultimately it allowed those who were in the US without Visas to stay as long as they paid the price, just like anyone who has committed a crime in this country has to pay a price.

Under their programs all of the criminals would be deported, but this would not really apply to the most of the immigrants that AZ is trying to track down with their new law.

One of the reasons this is such a touchy subject is our founding fathers did not have to deal with this, we were a young country that embraced everyone. Now we have issues of national security that have to be looked at before we can adopt firm immigration policy. We are a new generation that is going to have to figure this one out for ourselves.

I know when I raised my right hand, I pledged to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; Maybe if we brought our troops back from every other country around the world, we could defend our own borders and this wouldn't be such a big issue, just a thought.

[Ron Musgraves]

mexicans our our friends Matt, we certainly dont need our troops to Keep canada staright either.

Sercurity for our borders our being done in the right places around the globe.

Certainly being ex-military you dont believe in some ridiculous theory about bringing all our troops home and lets live in fantasy land about others not trying or having weapons of man distruction?

Opps another thread that one is, sorry i'm off subject.

Enough on this one, we will continue to harrass Americans in the name of the color of skin and force american to be deported by mistake. Of course our safety is now will twist the constitution and the pricipals I hold dearly to my heart as a patriot.

[mbryan]

The 9/11 attacks happened inside our borders, using our own planes against us, not with weapons of mass destruction from a country 5,000 miles away.

Immigrant workers make up a certain percentage of the American work force, but if those workers are paid less than minimum wage, under the table, then our dollar is even weaker than it already seems, and a portion of our economy is a lie.

Make those who are here illegally legal, put them through a process to give them citizenship, with penalties. Pay them what they deserve to be paid for the work that they do. Enforce our borders, but allow those that want to come here to prosper in.

[Beth n Rod]

Does anyone know who buys the most phone cards or disposable phones?

Has anyone noticed that signs have popped up in various stores and other places of business such as banks, in Spanish as well as English?

Did anyone see the program Home Depot (as I recall) rolled out where you can by a HD card with X dollars on it, and send it to someone to use in another country? You can send money home, but keep it in your store.

What is happening with the immigration issue in the US will effect us in many, many ways.

Beth

[Beth n Rod]

CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: Hispanic Population
HACU - Data, Statistics, and Research
http://www.tia.org/uploads/casestudi...te%20Paper.pdf

Beth

[Ron Musgraves]

Immigrant workers make up a certain percentage of the American work force, but if those workers are paid less than minimum wage, under the table, then our dollar is even weaker than it already seems, and a portion of our economy is a lie.

Where are these guys that work for this? Matt, i cant get a guy to mow my lawn for less than 12 and hour.

At least we agree we should reform these good people and give them hope.

They could be honest hard working folks just like you Matt, possible a greaser.

[Ron Musgraves]

Originally Posted by Beth n Rod

Does anyone know who buys the most phone cards or disposable phones?

Has anyone noticed that signs have popped up in various stores and other places of business such as banks, in Spanish as well as English?

Did anyone see the program Home Depot (as I recall) rolled out where you can by a HD card with X dollars on it, and send it to someone to use in another country? You can send money home, but keep it in your store.

What is happening with the immigration issue in the US will effect us in many, many ways.

Beth

Like i said VCR DVD FOOD CARS HOMES ,,, what burden are they putting on our economy? spending to much because they have nothing from the get go.

[Ron Musgraves]

The 9/11 attacks happened inside our borders, using our own planes against us, not with weapons of mass destruction from a country 5,000 miles away.

And why? because we did not have the pressence in middleast. Clinton admin reduced military spending to lower our cost of goverment.

[mbryan]

Hmm that is one theory.

If you read the 9/11 Commission report you will see that our own CIA and FBI disproves that theory. You should read it for yourself, I don't want to get too off topic in this thread. Suffice it to say that if there was a non U.S. presence in your neighborhood, that was doing things against what you strongly believed in as an American and a patriot, I am sure you would do something about it, and you would find a way to make what you did seem right in your own eyes.

As for illegal immigrants that will work for less than minimum wage, well you definately have me there. I can't prove definitively that any of them do. Do American businessmen take advantage of illegal immigrants that will work for less than U.S. citizens? Do they use this as a way to get out of paying FICA and WC? Who knows? But the new law in your state will certainly answer the question if it is enforced.

Don't be surprised if the price of a nice meal at your local restaurant goes up this year though.