Anybody do wet chemical service (fire suppression)

[jbruno]

I had my "hood guy" come by the other day when I wasn't there, and he told my chef I needed a 6 month servicing. I just got the bill... $209. He replaced 3 fusible links and 2 nozzles in the ducts. the hood and fire system are only 6 months old... is this an NFPA requirement every 6 months? Seems like my "hood guy" likes to spew out NFPA standards, which I haven't had the time to research yet...

p.s. took 15 minutes, and he charged me $80 labor.

[mas3372]

I would check with your local fire deparment. The fire marshal should be able to tell you what you need. As for NFPA requirements, that depends on your state. Rhode Island has adopted sections of NFPA but regulate mostly on state requiments based on OSHA and EPA. NFPA covers so much and are thier requiements that usually don't mean anything unless state or town has chosen thier sections to enforce.

As for $80 labor, if thats what they charge, thats what they charge. If you think it is unfair, shop around.

[Douglas Hicks]

Most FD don't know any thing about the kitchen fire suppression system, nor the codes regulating the service of the fire suppression system. With 25 years in the fire service, paid and volunteer, + 30 years in the fire suppression business I speak from personal experience. Copies of NFPA 10-2007, 17A-2002 and 96-2004 may be available at the local fire department. If you have doubts about the quality of the service, call and ask to have the tech come back and tell and show what he did on your system. When he shows up, let him go into his spiel, listen, watch, ask questions as to what and why he did what he did. the fusible links are dated, and should be cleaner than the conduit. Then when he is done, ask to see the mfg installation manual and something that shows the cooking line as it was when the system was installed. No manual, no payment. In the back of the manual is the mfg requirement for serviceing the equipment. Key points, dis-arm system, change links, blow piping out to check for obstructions, replace missing nozzle caps, replace plugged nozzles (nozzles can plug w/grease in6 months) test fuel shut-offs, light pilot lights, test fire alarm tie-ins, compare cooking line w/original suppression system install. I have systems I service in 15 minutes, but some take an hour. I do not know the price structure in your area, but the rate sounds reasonable if the service was done as per the mfg requirements. There are a lot of rag and tag operaters out there who do crap work. You may be dealing with such a company. If so, look around. If you chose the cheapest company, quit *****ing, you got what you paid for.

When choosing a service company, ask for proof of liablilty insurance, workers, comp, performance bond, licenses, certifications, training. Ask for names of some of their customers, and some of there former customers. If you like what you hear, and you hire them, be there when the tech is there. Ask to see the van, look for service manuals, NFPA Standards, tools, recharge equipemnt, spare parts. Is the van somewhat clean, is the tech somewhat clean, kitchen grease on the uniform is OK, does he act like he knows what he is doing?

Most our customers give us blanket permission to service/repair what ever needs to be done. If we are not allowed to perform the service to the NFPA standards, State of Oregon codes, mfg requirements, we walk away. This month I fired 2 customers, the 3rd will get a letter soon. Those former customers have been replaced already. we have 4 competitors in our area, one of which does quality work. With that competitor we refer customers and leads to each other. The other 3 are hacks, but they are cheaper.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
Oregon Licensed Contractor 78491

[jbruno]

I'm not really able to shop around, seeing as there are only 3 companies that do this type of work in my area. I guess I should be happy, at least he shows up. I'm just a little leary about having the links changed "everytime" he comes by.

And Doug, you're right. I'm a paid fireman and I have NO idea what the rules are about these sysytems, we only check to see that they have a current tag done by a contractor. And where I live, the FD is volunteer, so they don't do inspections. The building inspector is in charge of that stuff and I'm sure he hasn't a clue, because when I installed the system, I asked about make up air and he said "what?"

[mas3372]

As I paid firefighter as well, I can attest that I know nothing about the codes for kitchens. But I do know that our marshal has knowledge of them to a degree but certainly knows the avenues to take to obtain the information.

I recommend finding out what your local agency enforces because it may be less than NFPA. NFPA tends to be a bit more strict. I am not saying not to hold yourself to a higher standard if you choose, but you may have a more affordable alternative.

[possumface]

sounds like you have a service man that might know what he is doing. your duct & plenum nozzles can get plugged up pretty fast maybe he should have at least try to unplug with grease cleaner on those but some are just not worth the risk. your links are required to be changed every 6 months now it used to be yearly but thanks to new fire codes its changed. i will agree with most firemen don't know to much about fire suppression systems we really want them to learn the basics so they know how a fire test should be conducted and what to look for in case of rag taggers in the area. we are pretty lucky around here in the past year the firemen have identified the crooks and banned them. the fire system & portable fire extinguishers in your restaurant are very important don't go cheap on them its a mistake ive seen to often. if you don't think so then just look at the stats of restaurants that have burn't down in your area. ive been around for over 30+ yrs in fire suppression and seen alot of crazy things happen with hood fires. and yes there are alot of crooks that act like they know about fire systems but sooner or later the law of yin & yang catch up with them its the forces beyond our control that puts the kabosh on them

[Douglas Hicks]

James, one point I did not make. The hood guy is the guy who comes in and cleans the exhaust system, fan to duct. The fireguy is the guy who comes in and does the fire suppression system and portable fire extinguihshers. As we both know from experience in the fire service, no one plans to have a fire. When I was in the fire service & we got a call, we assumed the worst. During the response, we quickly went through the knowledge we got about the incident, our past knowledge of the area, the hazards, and based our plan on the worst case scenario. Very seldom was the incident that bad, but when it was, we were somewhat prepared. On the NFPA standards, the real standard to follow is the mfg. If you have not had the system serviced to the mfg requirements, you could be up the proverbial creek w/o a paddle. A nearby community had a resturant burn to the ground. the owner claimed everything was OK. the FM contacted the service agency, who produced the service reports. Each service report listed the same deficiencies, each report had the signature of a resturant employee. the insurance company denied the claim, because the system was not maintianed properly. You did get a copy of the service report?

Before you call in the service tech, pull a nozzle cap off and see if he catches it. If you want to really confuse him, ask about recalls. If an Ansul, ask it the chemical still chrystialyzzes. If a Range Guard w/an A+ control, ask it there is still a problem w/the rivit breaking and tripping the system. Adk if they hae problems getting nozzle seals Ask the torque required to tighten the nozzle caps (36 to 45 inch pounds) If a Pyrochem, ask if he changed the cartridge gasket. If an Amerex, ask if there is still leakage around the valve stem. If you get a blank look, hire someone else. If your K FX is an Ansul ask about the recall for the broken plastic siphon tube. A quality company will know about those recalls, even if they are not distributors of that brand. Again, ask to see the factory manual. The mfg tells in the manual , the required actions to perform maintence on your system. No manual, no money. Look in the van, look for tools, spare parts. Be an *******, it is your money, your business, your employees. This time yuou are the customer, act like one. As per NFPA, even though you are relying on the suppression company, the final responsibility for maintainence and service is yours.

good luck.

[Tmrrptr]

Sounds to me like the Sopranos are expanding.
Pay the money and let it be!
r

[HotShot]

Douglas, you are the man!!!!

J-Bru...in my area, every 6 months is mandatory.

[jbruno]

I just spoke with a hood guy (nopt cert in wet chem) he called another friend who said his sevice is $125 and includes all the things my guy did. Takes him 1 hour for a 10 ft. hood. The Links were stamped 2007...And supposedly it is every 6 months. I can't wait till they pass legislation saying people need thier house washed every 6 months!! LOL

[Douglas Hicks]

Bruno, one of the reasons behind the requirements for suppression systems, fire alarms, sprinkler systems, portable fire extinguishers is that equipment pertains to life safety. If the work is not done or not done to minimum standards, people can get hurt or die. However too often, the work is not done properly. There is no reason you cannot be in attendance when the work is done. That way you can see what is done and what is not done. If you do not like the work, hire someone else.

Douglas Hicks
GP supporter

[Steve Small]

Hello Guys I guess I will chime in. I am a Career firefighter, and I do inspections on hood systems. According to NFPA standards the system should be serviced every 6 months, or sooner if needed. If the establishment uses alot of oils and grease you may have to have it serviced even more than ever 6 months. A proper cleaning goes from the Kithchen all the way to the roof fans. Everything should be clean. Nozzle caps MUST be in place over disharge nozzles on the system. I have actually inspected numerous restaurants that had their hoods cleaned less than 6 months ago and we required them to be reserviced. They didn't like it, but it is for their protection, and when the fire department does do an inspection the should not only look at the tag, but they should also ask to see the NFPA 96 certificate.

[jbruno]

Originally Posted by Douglas Hicks

Bruno, one of the reasons behind the requirements for suppression systems, fire alarms, sprinkler systems, portable fire extinguishers is that equipment pertains to life safety. If the work is not done or not done to minimum standards, people can get hurt or die. However too often, the work is not done properly. There is no reason you cannot be in attendance when the work is done. That way you can see what is done and what is not done. If you do not like the work, hire someone else.

Douglas Hicks
GP supporter

Understood, I understand why inspections, and servicing of the system is required. I too am a career firefighter. My question was more pertinent to "how often" and "how much money."

I now will explore the othger company. seems they have a "set" price, and a "set" amount of work that goes with that price.

[dodsonish]

Originally Posted by Steve Small

Hello Guys I guess I will chime in. I am a Career firefighter, and I do inspections on hood systems. According to NFPA standards the system should be serviced every 6 months, or sooner if needed. If the establishment uses alot of oils and grease you may have to have it serviced even more than ever 6 months. A proper cleaning goes from the Kithchen all the way to the roof fans. Everything should be clean. Nozzle caps MUST be in place over disharge nozzles on the system. I have actually inspected numerous restaurants that had their hoods cleaned less than 6 months ago and we required them to be reserviced. They didn't like it, but it is for their protection, and when the fire department does do an inspection the should not only look at the tag, but they should also ask to see the NFPA 96 certificate.

For your reference....

[Douglas Hicks]

I just finished servicing a dry system, it had not been serviced for 3 years. All the nozzles caps were missing, one appliance nozzles was plugged w/grease, duct and plenim nozzles were missing nozzle caps. One of the fusile links was dated 1997. I never did find the gas valve, or reset. I charged $260.00. I'll see if the customer complains about the price. We have a good reputation w/the inspectors. We have 4 fire marshalls in our area who will give our name to those who ask for a recommendation.

There are companies who do a good job, and who are interested in quality work. There are clients who are only interested in price. I do not think you are in the "price" catagory. Good luck in your search.