Homemade Foamer Plans

[mbryan]

I like the two line foamers better just for the simple fact that I don't ever have to take tanks up to the roof anymore. You can also adjust your air right at the gun which is sweet, and no surging at all, perfect foam every time.

[HotShot]

uh....ok

[MMI Enterprises]

Any new mods?
Is the foam production still good if volume is limited by the needle valves. What results from fan tipping or small orifice long range barb nozzles or the 0-40 tips?
Would think that foam may be less if a speedy expansion into the foamer chamber is hampered to some point...
Do we dare even imagine the air induction and foamer chamber attached on the end of pressure washer? Some how or other there are systems that foam a whole house with fire prevention chems right before a forest fire comes through...

Bob,
Any check valves in yers and where to get local?...adding one on the chem line before the two line meet seems to me to be usefull in order to add more air as desired. Again I would think if the tip sizing too small (creating back pressure) then the pressures would be too high on the outlet side of the check valve to allow the chem to enter. For instance in high pressure sytems the check valve in the downstreamers don't allow chems through to the downstreamer unless pressure is dropped via larger tips...
In a clog/closed trigger or small tip situation along with higher air pressure then chem pressure would result in chem being forced back to tank thus evening out the pressures.
Seems to me that either small tipping and a checkvalveless setup would hamper this idea of adding more air than chem...maybe there is no need to do so whatsoever..am about to make my foamer and start tinkering.


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PS-Concerning cleanup and multiple uses of the canister sprayers--Checkvalving near gun along with quik connects being involved would allow for backflushing the chemline back to canister if a short length of jumper line is used during cleanup. As I have my canister now for hvlp I have ball valve at the air inlet to tank that allows me to depressurize tank/chem side yet keep the airline pressure going to gun via the regulated 't'.... it equals real fast cleanup/backflushing.
So checkvalve incorporated into the double valve setup at the gun is the route I'm going rather than checkvalving at tank.

...where am I going to get all these parts in 3/8 stainless form?
The foamer easy enough to just remake if from brass but the valving section before the gun I'de rather not.

[Hummerbk]

What generally happens with foam is that pressure tends to collapse the bubbles. Putting a small restrictive nozzle or a long hose on the foamer gun would make a wetter foam. When using nozzles I would use as large a one as possible such as a soap nozzle, something that would change the pattern of dispersion but not increase pressure too much.
I am working on something that will allow me to foam a long duct without degrading the foam and making it too wet.
Still looking for advice on the best foaming agent to try if you guys would quit guarding it like it's a state secret or something we could all move ahead on this process.

[mbryan]

The best foaming agent I have found is the Morgan Gallacher Detergent Concentrate Custom Chemical Formulators, Inc. . I get it for around $13/gal in a drum, it will probably be around $15/gal in singles. I have tried pretty much every one I could get my hands on, and for the price, this one cant be beat. I have a couple of drums in my shop if you want me to send you a sample. You can also contact Scott Von Luft at MG and he will be more than happy to send some out to you.

[mbryan]

Originally Posted by MMI Enterprises

Do we dare even imagine the air induction and foamer chamber attached on the end of pressure washer?

Dare to imagine

[MMI Enterprises]

Missed that one Matt...awesome!!

Where the chems coming in at....before gun or along with the air through that foamer hose line? Also, and most importantly, what tip size is being used and what check valve scenario is being used?.. i.e.-putting 3kpsi back to air/chem source could get dangerous..I would really hate to see a clogged tip. Probably hard to do that if using the 3/8 type barbs but could still happen if the internal brush/agitator bunches up as mentioned earlier when various materials are used as agitator. Hoping you got checkvalve right there at foamer or wherever the high pressure supply line ends and chem/air source begins.

[mbryan]

Those wands use the same kind of deal that a downstream injector uses, I think they just have a little ball that stops anything from going in to the line. The injector is after the gun, and the air gets sucked in to the wand, so you don't need an outside air source. As far as foamers go, they are the most convenient and inexpensive methods. Just Google "foam cannon" and you can get a look at how they are set up.

[MMI Enterprises]

Got ya on the ds method., thanx.
Whether chem injection via secondary diphragm pump or air canister setup could be asked I guess......
Without you saying so I assume main pressure is low same as the 3/8 used for this threads foamer.
I picture two 1/4" DSer's right there on gun before foamer working good. One does chem and one does air....actually couldn't the air-in could just be a checkvalve off a 't' of say some size larger than might normally be used..you know to really get some air in there?
...Ok off I go for parts.Maybe Hd got 1/4" streamers or stainless valves and agitator brushes?.doubt it..haha. I like to do things permenant if I can.

[MMI Enterprises]

Matt,
Before I go a googlin I'll just say that part of that thing looks to be the Dewalt Soaper nozzle that sells at HD for $9.87. It's shroud gismo is oblong but I imagine a little heat may make it round again to be able to do a cpcv version of the brush foamer directly to it. We are talking low pressures and the pvc glue is like welding so should be ok IF tip don't clog...
I was able to hand sqwish the shroud some when I took it out the box. Shroud sticks out like 3".
..Other than that my other guess is the foamer is made from an elk call.... :


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ps-- ok went googlin and one of the first things I see is that that cannon looks to be a suttner:

" Amazon.com: Suttner Foam Cannon with Injector: Home Improvement
Product Description
The ideal foam generator application accessory meters the foaming chemical for customized foam type and applies the foam to match the application. Stainless 1.5mm orifice (# 5.5 nozzle equivalent) High impact glass-filled body"

..now what interests me about that is the "5.5 equivelent" which apparently boils down to high pressure/xjet. That thing got changeable tips?.. that would be awesome and right up my alley. Foam or no foam applications..cool!

..this may interest some- Tommy Gun Foamer - Wall and Equipment Cleaner - Truveo Video Search

..this one here has to be one of the most non-runny high flow situation I seen...the foam seems to be sticking pretty good- Video of Foam Cannon w/Zaino - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting ... ohhp, apparently the chem is Zaino brand- Foam guns are waaaaay too much fun! - Autopia Car Detailing Forum and but assume it has waxes and stuff in it also- Zaino Products and Application Tips ..darn that had me excited!

..ok I stop for the night... gettin off track of hood/vent foamers sorta..maybe somebody could pm me what plans they come up with for HP xjet type foamer..

[centexpw]

Hummerbk, I like your design and have built one. I also have a twin line foamer from Lafferty. Ive had it a couple of years. It is an driven diaphragm pump which draws chemical from a pail. No keg needed. Mixes at the gun. But it is LV. I like your design, it is more volume. Thanks for sharing.

I like how everyone is refining and tweaking the design.

For SS fitting, check valves, needle valves, SS keg parts
Dultmeier Sales
Foxx Equipment - Site Index
Brewers Discount

[Hummerbk]

Centexpw, I'm glad the foamer is working well for you.
Thanks for the link to Brewers Supply. They have the lowest prices I've seen for stainless quick connects and great prices on kegs.

[mbryan]

Hey Hummerbk, did you get a hold of Morgan Gallacher for some of that Detergent Concentrate?

[mbryan]

Originally Posted by MMI Enterprises

" Amazon.com: Suttner Foam Cannon with Injector: Home Improvement
Product Description
The ideal foam generator application accessory meters the foaming chemical for customized foam type and applies the foam to match the application. Stainless 1.5mm orifice (# 5.5 nozzle equivalent) High impact glass-filled body"

..now what interests me about that is the "5.5 equivelent" which apparently boils down to high pressure/xjet. That thing got changeable tips?.. that would be awesome and right up my alley. Foam or no foam applications..cool!

We have a couple of those, they only work when you upstream your chemicals. They almost make too much foam if that is possible.

[MMI Enterprises]

Originally Posted by mbryan

We have a couple of those, they only work when you upstream your chemicals. They almost make too much foam if that is possible.

sorry..am a little slow right now Matt...how you mean "only work when you upstream"?.. upstream usually means added before pump, downstream means added after... maybe we need a new term in 'wandstreaming'..
Are you meaning that your doing a true upstream through your pump in order to use the high pressure tips?.. no way, I know you don't mean that cause fer one you know the risks of pump damage and fer two why would you even have a hose going to the Suttner in the video.

So if we can assume the Suttner is working it's 'wandstreamer' at high pressure...Any idea on how the builtin streamer is allowing chems in against high pressure?.. What pressure do you think it to be coming out the suttner tip?

My interest stems from (--Everyone wants the solution to using high pressure chem spray without upstreaming or the too diluted situation of downstreaming when it comes to keeping chems on trailer. (aside from induction..no ned to go there here). When it comes to wandstreaming as in the xjet or suttner we always assume that the increase of chem comes by way of less backpressure...But how do they work under high pressure is the question.. Is it by simply having no checkvalve or by a checkvalve adjusted different, or by different venturi as well as a differently adjusted checkvalve.
We never get confirmation from anyone in the industry..never!...a supplier once told me though that the chem in-tube orifice is just larger diameter but it didn't answer question on how to get true highpressure.
So what pressure is the xjet and these Suttner foamers doing?..anyone welcome to address this.-)



Also, Matt did you say what you prefure to send to the suttners?. straight chem or is it air/chem mixed..ah likely just chem hu?..
So do they suck air in through a built in checkvalve is what I was trying to ask earlier?


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Need source for an 1/4" npt check valve that I can put in a 't"..
and a source for stainless parts locally...anyone?..

When I went to HD last night they were closing up and they got hardly any stainless.. shoulda remembered that from other endeavours...wondering if I should try Ace maybe..