Need some KEC help in SE Virginia

[Deagol]

Hi there folks, it's been awhile since I've been around, mostly because I dropped out of the KEC business, and went back to work full time doing fire suppression service. (Pretty close to 2 years or so I think.) Anyway, one of the things that I've been noticing is that there doesn't seem to be anyone in the 300 mile radius that we service that is doing things right. Even our local IKECA certified company is so bad, I wouldn't recommend them to my customers if I was paid to.
Since January first, I have been called twice for fires that involved the grease igniting in an exhaust duct. The second happened last week, and made it to the exhaust fan before the fire department got it out. The hood had been cleaned in February, and there was at least an inch of baked on grease through most of the exhaust duct. The company that did the cleaning has been cleaning it every 2 months for the past two years. The suppression system discharged and put out most of the fire, but it was an old dry system, and with the grease buildup being so bad, it was limited as to how much it could do.
Unfortunately, it seems like the hood cleaners and even owners in this area are far more interested in getting a sticker on the hood saying it's been cleaned than they are in making sure that it's actually clean. Is there anybody in Virginia that is willing to put the effort into doing these things right?

EDIT: Here are a few pictures of what I found. Any of you foam guys have a clue how well foam would work to break this stuff up?

[RMedbery]

The second pic needs scraped. Foam is great but not magical.

[Douglas Hicks]

I looked real close at the pictures & I think they missed a small spot.

My initial concern is possoble damage to the duct work. The first picture shows a potential problem at the welded seams. The second shows a complete lack of proper cleaning. I would approach the insurance company with those photos and talk to them about the importance of cleaning to bare metal so you can inspect the conditionof the sheet metal. Then talk to them about upgrqading to a UL 300. Later today, my sheet metal man & I are going to look at an account that had a fire. We are installing a new hood, duct, duct wrap, exhaust and intake fans, and UL 300 system. Other trades are installeing new plumbing, elecetrical, HVAC, fixtures. My experience is that the insurance company will upgrade to current standards any equipment that is damaged.

GEt in there and get your fair share!

[mbryan]

Originally Posted by Deagol

Even our local IKECA certified company is so bad, I wouldn't recommend them to my customers if I was paid to.

Certified companies doing shoddy work is happening all across the country. Until the certifying bodies start to take some accountability for their certified members, it will continue to happen. Right now kitchen exhaust cleaning certification is as simple as taking a 90 question online test. In fact, it is very easy to say you are somebody else (say Elvis Presley) and get certified in about 15 minutes online. So companies are just having one guy who is a BDG taking the test for his whole company, even getting the girl who answers the phone and the girl that does the books certified.

We took the below pictures after a company exactly like the one you are talking about "serviced" the exhaust system.

Busted by the Fire Department by Grease Police






That system looks like a piece of cake to clean with the right tools. Call Alexy Abdo from Industrial Cleaning Solutions in Warrenton VA 703-402-9888. I have personally inspected his work, and can say that he is a top notch cleaner with all of the tools to get the job done right.

[Dave O]

Cool more pictures for me from Matt

Thanks bud

[mbryan]

No problem buddy, I got alotta mo!!

Keep an eye on your hood cleaning company by Grease Police

[Dave O]

Awww
Come on now give up the Certificate of NON-COMPLETION

[mbryan]

C'mon now, there are a lot of "inaccessible areas" in these systems (as defined by NFPA 96 )

"Within comfortable reach..."

Look at how uncomfortable it would be to scrape all the way down this duct, I mean the guy might have gotten some grease on his elbows, think how uncomfortable that would have been. You can click on the picture to see the rest of the areas that weren't very easily accessible.

[Dave O]

Maybe they had a cramp that day and could not comfortably reach

Maybe it was cold out

Maybe they didn't have a cleaning manuel

[HotShot]

this is just my opinion, but NFPA 96 is getting too watered down and turning into a joke. What ever happend to raising the standard and making people comply, not lowering the standard so that retards, or lazy bass-turds are in compliance.

[mbryan]

I gotta agree that it is getting watered down on the cleaning side. I do feel that if an exhaust system is installed per NFPA 96 it will prevent damage to a building but that just makes it easier for cleaners to do crappy work.

[BUNN]

Originally Posted by HotShot

this is just my opinion, but NFPA 96 is getting too watered down and turning into a joke. What ever happend to raising the standard and making people comply, not lowering the standard so that retards, or lazy bass-turds are in compliance.

I have to agree with you 100%.

[gman2022]

As stated previously, NFPA code 96 is a standard that is not followed by our industry in general. You must make the customer aware of the danger when you take over an account that has not been properly cleaned in WRITING. Most restaurants don't want to pay to have the system cleaned properly ,or at proper intervals from the start . They do not or refuse to recognize the risk they are placing on themselves. As a result the contractor lowers his price to get the job and doesn't clean thoroughly. We come in, sometimes years after inferior cleaning, and have a disaster on our hands. We charge accordingly. The fire inspectors don't inspect the ductwork or ask the cleaning companies for written documentation for each cleaning. ( with few exceptions ) I have seen my sticker on some hoods that we cleaned three years ago. How is this allowed to occur? Charge what you need to make a good profit. Do the job right. Document all issues in writing after every service. Follow-up on your technicians and stay current with the flow of info. Take frequent showers too!! KOG

[Deagol]

Originally Posted by HotShot

this is just my opinion, but NFPA 96 is getting too watered down and turning into a joke. What ever happend to raising the standard and making people comply, not lowering the standard so that retards, or lazy bass-turds are in compliance.

Someone once told me, that codes are written so as to offend the least amount of people. 96 appears to be suffering from that.

I appreciate all of the responses, and will try to update this as more information comes out on what the local fm's decide to do. Amazingly enough, the owner of the hood cleaning company came down to see what his employees had left, and decided to stroke a check for the damages. No word on wether he's covering the two days that they were shut down or not.

My initial concern is possoble damage to the duct work. The first picture shows a potential problem at the welded seams. The second shows a complete lack of proper cleaning. I would approach the insurance company with those photos and talk to them about the importance of cleaning to bare metal so you can inspect the conditionof the sheet metal. Then talk to them about upgrqading to a UL 300. Later today, my sheet metal man & I are going to look at an account that had a fire. We are installing a new hood, duct, duct wrap, exhaust and intake fans, and UL 300 system. Other trades are installeing new plumbing, elecetrical, HVAC, fixtures. My experience is that the insurance company will upgrade to current standards any equipment that is damaged.

GEt in there and get your fair share!

There were several building officials in there, and they gave the ductwork a clean bill of health...at least as long as it gets cleaned. The fan had to be replaced, and I believe they replaced the fryers with electric instead of gas. They are also going to upgrade the fire system. That was something in the works that they hadn't gotten around to yet. We've also made arrangements to send them pictures of any hoods/ducts that we find with that kind of buildup.

As far as getting in there and getting my share, I tried that for about a year and a half before accepting the fact that when it comes to the work there are few better, but when it comes to being a businessman, I sucked One day I might try again, but that day is pretty far off.