Wood chat transcript - 9/28/05

[Beth n Rod]

09/28/05 19:47:05 Russell_C Logs in [172.157.138.158]

09/28/05 19:48:50 Russell_C: Welcome to Wood Chat. My name is Russell Cissell and I will be your host for the evening. We are just about to get things started. Wood Chat begins at 9:00 Eastern time

09/28/05 20:34:37 scottk Logs in [68.217.211.188]

09/28/05 20:34:44 scottk Logs Out

09/28/05 20:46:46 rayj Logs in [68.192.245.208]

09/28/05 20:47:01 Russell_C: Welcome to Wood Chat

09/28/05 20:47:13 Russell_C: Have you got any questions this evening?

09/28/05 20:47:14 rayj: Thank you Russell

09/28/05 20:47:32 rayj: Where should I start? Hmm

09/28/05 20:48:09 rayj: You and I had a quick exchange of e-mails that I never got back to you about last week regarding salts

09/28/05 20:48:27 Russell_C: All right

09/28/05 20:48:30 Russell_C: I remember

09/28/05 20:48:54 rayj: Sorry about that.

09/28/05 20:49:02 Russell_C: Was there something specific you would like to know?

09/28/05 20:49:38 rayj: Well I had hoped to be able to merely go back and re rinse and maybe take a soft nylon brush to the grains to hopefully remove them

09/28/05 20:49:41 Russell_C: Thats ok, we all get busy!

09/28/05 20:49:47 rayj: It didnt work

09/28/05 20:50:08 rayj: It took it off but there is still more.

09/28/05 20:50:09 Russell_C: You are refering to the furing that you had?

09/28/05 20:50:31 rayj: Salts on the surface of a few isolated boards on a pt deck we did this spring

09/28/05 20:50:44 Russell_C: Ahh, ok

09/28/05 20:51:10 rayj: Cabot Australina timber oil

09/28/05 20:51:17 Russell_C: So you were able to remove some, but the white marks remain

09/28/05 20:51:19 rayj: Australian that is

09/28/05 20:51:35 Russell_C: We do not grade spelling or typing here

09/28/05 20:51:35 rayj: yes

09/28/05 20:51:43 rayj: good thing

09/28/05 20:52:07 Russell_C: What condition was the finish in where you removed some of the stains?

09/28/05 20:52:35 rayj: Do you mean prior to staining?

09/28/05 20:52:51 rayj: Or after salts appeared

09/28/05 20:52:55 Russell_C: Well, you just answered my question

09/28/05 20:53:25 Russell_C: I was going to ask if you had to touch up the stain after cleaning the salt marks

09/28/05 20:53:37 rayj: We stripped years of water based water seal with Sodium Hydroxide followed by Oxalic

09/28/05 20:54:09 rayj: My guys assured me that they rinsed rinsed rinsed & rinsed again.

09/28/05 20:54:27 Russell_C: Yes, we can be sure they did!

09/28/05 20:54:47 Russell_C: One thing we can all agree on is our help never takes short cuts!

09/28/05 20:55:24 rayj: Someone told me that there was a chance they had put the brightener on the wood after it had dried too much and that the crystals from the brightener could be brushed or rinsed off

09/28/05 20:55:39 rayj: This was my hope

09/28/05 20:56:06 rayj: I suppose I will need to restrip the whole ball of wax?

09/28/05 20:56:44 Russell_C: If I remember correctly what you described to me sounded like it may have leached to the surface after you applied the oil

09/28/05 20:57:05 rayj: this is correct. Good memory!

09/28/05 20:57:45 rayj: Only on a few boards. It almost looked like a sap line but it wasnt.

09/28/05 20:57:49 Russell_C: Did you try to rub the spots off with mineral spirits?

09/28/05 20:57:57 rayj: It followed the contour of the grain

09/28/05 20:58:11 rayj: No, just water and a nylon brush so far

09/28/05 20:58:15 Russell_C: They didn't rinse!

09/28/05 20:59:07 Russell_C: Ok, as I recall out conversation got cut short before I had a feel for how much of the wood was effected by this

09/28/05 20:59:23 Russell_C: You had said it was in spots

09/28/05 20:59:47 Russell_C: I remember a grumble when I suggested wiping with a rag

09/28/05 21:00:00 rayj: Not much. Its not a large deck, but only parts of three boards have the problem

09/28/05 21:00:26 Russell_C: Ok

09/28/05 21:00:32 rayj: Naa not me. I dont grumble. You must have me confused with my wife.

09/28/05 21:00:56 rayj: Kidding (as she looks over my shoulder)

09/28/05 21:01:39 Russell_C: I would try taking a rag damp with mineral spirits and dampening the effected area. Then rub with light to medium pressure.

09/28/05 21:02:07 Russell_C: Have you got any extra timber oil?

09/28/05 21:02:34 rayj: Yes but the darn formulation has changed since the earlier application.

09/28/05 21:02:59 Russell_C: Well, that should not be a big issue.

09/28/05 21:03:02 rayj: Thicker, less penetrating. Hate them.

09/28/05 21:03:42 Russell_C: After you have rubbed the spots clean with the mineral spirits take a clean rag and get it damp with spirits.

09/28/05 21:03:57 rayj: When I use the mineral spirits, should I be looking for any characteristics other than the removal of the salts?

09/28/05 21:04:10 Russell_C: then take that rag and get it just wet with stain.

09/28/05 21:04:45 Russell_C: It may cause a blemish in the finish, it could present as dull or possible a lighter color.

09/28/05 21:05:15 Russell_C: Getting back to your rag

09/28/05 21:06:17 Russell_C: the idea is to have the rag moist with spirits and oil. Use this rag to wipe over the area with attention to the area you worked on

09/28/05 21:06:44 Russell_C: you want to try to blend it in as much as possible

09/28/05 21:08:20 Russell_C: Do you understand?

09/28/05 21:08:27 rayj: Would it help to mix a small container 50 / 50 with stain & spirits?

09/28/05 21:08:35 Russell_C: If you like, you can give me a call tomorrow.

09/28/05 21:08:45 Russell_C: Yes, you could do that

09/28/05 21:09:32 rayj: It sounds fairly straight forward. How much time after this treatment does it usually take to determine success?

09/28/05 21:10:57 Russell_C: It is pretty much a wipe off wipe on process. You should know how it turns out in about 15 min.

09/28/05 21:11:24 Russell_C: There is always a chance the salts will come back though

09/28/05 21:11:50 Russell_C: Did the customer call you back or did you find this on an inspection?

09/28/05 21:11:58 rayj: Dumb secondary question. Mineral Spirits versus paint thinner versus turpentine? Advantages, disadvantages?

09/28/05 21:12:19 rayj: Is it all the same or very different?

09/28/05 21:12:45 Russell_C: Hmmmmm

09/28/05 21:12:59 Russell_C: It's about like the octane rating on gas

09/28/05 21:13:09 Russell_C: Spirits will work just fine

09/28/05 21:13:35 Russell_C: Can you even get the other two?

09/28/05 21:14:07 Russell_C: I am not sure we can get anything but rule 66 spirits in stores here

09/28/05 21:14:19 rayj: Yes, and thats the problem..

09/28/05 21:14:43 rayj: Ive never been sure if using one or the other is not a good idea

09/28/05 21:14:59 rayj: Seems like Turp does a better job on the brushes

09/28/05 21:15:02 Russell_C: In this case I would say no

09/28/05 21:15:44 Russell_C: Turpentine has more bite, but is more harsh

09/28/05 21:15:44 rayj: Im in New Jersey, I could probably just use straight tap water huh?

09/28/05 21:16:23 Russell_C: I couldn't say! Is your water bad?

09/28/05 21:17:16 Tonyc Logs in [68.42.235.8]

09/28/05 21:17:17 rayj: No Im just poking fun at the old place. Everyone else just assumes that we all live on a toxic waste site up here.

09/28/05 21:17:25 Russell_C: Hey tony

09/28/05 21:17:33 rayj: Hi Tony

09/28/05 21:17:37 Tonyc: Howdy!

09/28/05 21:17:57 Russell_C: Ahh, I live right on the Mississippi, I have seen my share of funny water.

09/28/05 21:18:21 Russell_C: How are things tony?

09/28/05 21:18:33 rayj: Your not one of those crazy guys who fishes for big catfish without a pole are ya?

09/28/05 21:18:36 Tonyc: Slowing down quite a bit

09/28/05 21:18:49 Russell_C: No!

09/28/05 21:19:04 Russell_C: Do you think there will be another push this year?

09/28/05 21:19:29 Tonyc: I don't expect it, at least wood work

09/28/05 21:19:32 rayj: Im getting a small one that started last week.

09/28/05 21:20:15 rayj: Phones perked up a bit and some follow ups on last weeks estimates are finding a bit of success

09/28/05 21:20:30 Russell_C: That is always nice

09/28/05 21:20:38 Tonyc: Commercial work often picks up around this time

09/28/05 21:20:42 rayj: How late can you guys dance with wood?

09/28/05 21:20:51 Russell_C: Depending on temps and rain, we could have up to 8 weeks

09/28/05 21:21:12 Tonyc: Here in MI, we're done about Halloween

09/28/05 21:21:18 rayj: For me its only about till Halloween.

09/28/05 21:21:36 rayj: <~~Jersey

09/28/05 21:21:42 Russell_C: I have seen snow on Holloween and worn Shorts to Turkey day

09/28/05 21:22:02 Russell_C: It used to make me crazy

09/28/05 21:22:08 Russell_C: Reading the almanac

09/28/05 21:22:14 Russell_C: watching the caterpillars

09/28/05 21:22:17 rayj: It doesnt anymore>>

09/28/05 21:22:30 rayj: make you crazy that is?

09/28/05 21:23:02 Russell_C: Nah, I have gone from looking at months, to seasons, to years, to cycles.

09/28/05 21:23:07 Tonyc: sometimes breathing in too many stain fumes can make you crazy

09/28/05 21:23:12 rayj: What do the caterpillars tell you?

09/28/05 21:23:25 Russell_C: It all just is what it is. You concentrate on what you can controll and make the best of what you cant

09/28/05 21:23:42 Russell_C: Dark ones mean bad winter, light ones mean mild winter

09/28/05 21:24:19 scottk Logs in [68.217.211.188]

09/28/05 21:24:21 rayj: Hmm Come to think of it I havent even seen any.....What does that mean>

09/28/05 21:24:28 rayj: Hello Scott

09/28/05 21:24:33 Russell_C: I live in the boonies, there is still a lot of the old indian wisdom here

09/28/05 21:24:33 Tonyc: howdy scott

09/28/05 21:24:34 scottk: hi ray

09/28/05 21:24:44 scottk: hi tony

09/28/05 21:24:49 Russell_C: Welcome to wood chat

09/28/05 21:25:03 scottk: thanks russell

09/28/05 21:25:21 Russell_C: Scott, how long do you think your season will go?

09/28/05 21:25:40 scottk: we work pretty much year round

09/28/05 21:26:11 scottk: we washed commercial work last in every day unless it was in the low 20's

09/28/05 21:26:40 Tonyc: trucks?

09/28/05 21:26:52 scottk: flatwork

09/28/05 21:27:03 scottk: we'll have 15 trash trucks this year

09/28/05 21:27:08 Tonyc: I can't seem to get flatwork during colder months

09/28/05 21:27:45 Russell_C: Thats great

09/28/05 21:27:46 scottk: monthly accounts with restaurants keep us busy

09/28/05 21:27:46 rayj: I cant seem to get flat work period.

09/28/05 21:28:11 rayj: Most of the property managers I hit could care less how there places look.

09/28/05 21:28:15 Tonyc: I like to have a good mix of wood, houses, and flatwork

09/28/05 21:28:28 rayj: Its been frustrating

09/28/05 21:28:36 scottk: we do some houses in the iwnetr and a few roofs but not nearly as much as the summer months

09/28/05 21:28:53 scottk: winter

09/28/05 21:28:59 Tonyc: look at condo complexes for deck work

09/28/05 21:29:00 Russell_C: Have you tried getting apointments to speak to the owners association meetings?

09/28/05 21:29:21 rayj: Winter deck work??

09/28/05 21:29:40 scottk: property management companies are good for consistant work

09/28/05 21:30:08 Tonyc: NO winter deck work, but set up for next season

09/28/05 21:30:37 Russell_C: Well guys, I have a late dinner waiting for me

09/28/05 21:30:51 rayj: Thanks for the help Russell

09/28/05 21:30:52 scottk: later russel have a great night

09/28/05 21:30:53 Tonyc: enjoy

09/28/05 21:30:54 Russell_C: I will be back here next week at 9:00 eastern

09/28/05 21:31:03 scottk Logs Out

09/28/05 21:31:09 Russell_C: Have a great week!

09/28/05 21:31:14 Tonyc: you 2

09/28/05 21:31:19 Russell_C Logs Out

09/28/05 21:31:20 Tonyc Joins Subroom Town Meeting

09/28/05 21:31:59 rayj: Tony, how have you found most of your commercial work?

09/28/05 21:32:15 Tonyc: they usually find me

09/28/05 21:33:09 rayj: Im only a little past two years in the business. So far most of my work has been residential.

09/28/05 21:33:18 Tonyc: once you get foot in,,,take lots of pics to show other prospects

09/28/05 21:33:36 rayj: I need to push commercial, but my efforts seem to have been in vein.

09/28/05 21:33:43 Tonyc Logs Out

09/28/05 21:34:07 rayj Logs Out

09/28/05 22:39:16 MikeSweerin Logs in [151.213.154.14]

09/28/05 22:39:41 MikeSweerin: anyone stiil here

09/28/05 22:40:00 MikeSweerin Logs Out