Woodrich Brand Timber Oil - Pressure Washing and Contractor Cleaning Forums

Russell Cissell · **Woodrich Brand Timber Oil -** Apr 11th, 07, 08:51 PM

To help introduce our Woodrich Brand Timber Oil stain, we are running a special promotion. Right now when you buy 10 Gallons of Timber Oil in the Warm Honey Gold color you will receive 10 LB of EFC-38 or HD-80 and 10 LB of Citralic FREE!

That is enough cleaner/stripper and brightener to restore 3000 square feet of wood FREE!

If you enjoy working with paraffinic based stains, you will love working with Woodrich Brand Timber Oil. You will recognize that comfortable ease of use, no runs, drips or lap marks with a whole new twist. You will also notice incredible coverage.

Woodrich Brand Timber Oil is loaded down with nearly three times (3X) the amount of transoxide pigments used in other leading brands. More pigment means you will use less product overall. You will even out more of the woods natural imperfections and achieve a rich beautiful finish every time.

More pigment means less coats or applications. Applying less product takes less time.
Less product + Less time = Greater profitability for you!

If you would like to give Woodrich Brand Timber Oil a try you can visit the web site at www.esproducts.net
Or call Suzie at (314) 809-3043 and ask for the Timber Oil Special. Your total cost will be $198.00 and this special includes FREE SHIPPING!

If you have any questions feel free to give me a call at 636-288-8512.

Deck Guy · Apr 13th, 07, 06:21 PM

That's a good enough deal to get me off the fence and try it out. I've also been wanting to try HD-80, so it's a double whammy for me. I'm calling Susie.

Deck Guy · 02:36 PM

I think you misunderstand the chemistry of it James (basically have it backwards), but let's hope Russel chimes in, since he can explain the chemistry way better than I ever could. Maybe we both could learn a thing or two from him.

I don't see anything about higher resin content, just higher pigment content (transoxides) than other paraffinic oils. Are you maybe thinking about Wood-Tux??

Anyway, where resins do exist, wouldn't that be what bonds the pigments to the surface? If so, they wouldn't be "fillers," and would likely comprise the most costly ingredient (by a given volume) of a stain formula. It would then be silly to add them as "fillers."

As far as who it benefits...every product offers a compromise between ease of application, cost, and longevity. If only someone could make a stain that was easy to apply, cost $5 a gallon, and lasted 10 years, we'd all be beating a path to his door! As for me, ease of application is a factor I consider heavily.

RPetry · Apr 15th, 07, 10:27 AM

Larry,

Careful what you ask for.

Quote:

If only someone could make a stain that was easy to apply, cost $5 a gallon, and lasted 10 years, we'd all be beating a path to his door!

If this ever came true, we would be closing up our businesses and looking for a job!

Russell Cissell · 09:31 AM

I guess we are kind of "old school" in the sense that we don't count the paraffinic oil as "solids." For example in our Timber Oil Stain if you were to count the paraffinic oil as a solid the product would be virtually 100% solids.

That is very misleading. Paraffinic oils are nothing more than a carrier; a vehicle for drawing the true solids into the wood. These oils don't evaporate and do in fact provide some benefit in that they will occupy voids in the wood that might otherwise be occupied by water. They do not however provide the same level of protection as true resin and pigment solids.

When we talk about solids, it is in the same way the coatings industry has for over a century. The solids make up the body of the finish. True solids include primarily the resin and pigment content but also the antifungal package and any other active ingredients.

Wood requires the most protection at the surface where it is subjected to the elements. Paraffinic oils do little to nothing in the way of protecting the surface. When it comes to the wood looking good (the primary concern of the majority of customers) it's all about the pigment and binders. When it comes to the long term performance of the finish the resins tell the story.

For example you could make a very simple stain with nothing more that paraffinic oil and pigment.

Baby Oil is Mineral Seal Oil, Mineral Seal Oil is Paraffinic Oil.
If you mixed Baby Oil and Pigment you would have a simple wood stain.

With 0% pigment you just have oil. If you put it on the wood, the wood will become slightly darker (like when it's wet) and it would be oily, which would help keep the water from penetrating in to the wood for a while. The wood would still be subjected to UV damage and would soon turn gray.

The more pigment you add, the higher the solids become. Many paraffinic stains will use as little as 3.5% pigment solids. This can be enough to provide UV protection, however you can imagine the coverage will be very low. At 3.5% pigment you may have to go as low as 75 - 90 square feet per gallon in order to get enough pigment on the surface of the wood for it to "look good" and have adequate UV protection.

Remember with little or no resin or binders to hold the pigment in the wood the color will quickly fade or wash away. At that point the customer is not going to care how "protected" you tell them the wood is. It just won't look "pretty."

The key to making a quality paraffinic stain is loading it with pigment. If you have to completely saturate the wood with oil in order to get enough pigment on the surface, in the long run the oil is going to work against you. Paraffinic oils do not dry and there is nothing to seal them, or bind them to the wood. This means they remain mobile.

If the wood gets too cold and contracts, the oils can get squeezed back to the surface and flush your pigment out of the wood. If the wood gets too hot the oils will thin and can make the wood feel oily again. By using more pigment, you don't have to completely saturate the wood with oil in order to achieve a beautiful finish. By not saturating the wood, you leave room for the natural mobility of the oils.

Any time you are working with a non drying system you will get the most protection out of the product with the highest spread rate. The spread rate is largely determined by the percentage of pigment solids. The second most important characteristic is going to be the anti-fungal package.

Contrary to "popular belief" paraffinic oils present a nightmare when it comes to mold and mildew. It is 100% true that mold and mildew will not attack paraffinic oils. The trouble is a true paraffinic stain never dries. The very thin layer of oil at the surface of the wood traps pollen and mold spores. Once you've got enough of each trapped on the surface, the mold will take hold and spread like wild fire.

Again you can tell the customer that the paraffinic oil is safe, so their wood is still protected, but as long as it doesn't look pretty, they aren't going to care. To combat mold and mildew a paraffinic oil requires nearly 3X the dose of antifungals as a resin based system (even if that resin was made with the dreaded linseed oil). Rather than go with the minimal adequate protection, we've dosed out Timber Oil Stain at the same level you find in a top quality 30 year exterior house paint.

Anything that is not locked to the wood is in some state of migration. In a non drying stain you have to load it up with anti fungals in anticipation of this migration.

Jim, I understand that things can get confusing when there is no control over the information that is being presented. You have no reason to take my word for it, I'm nothing but a salesman, but I have to tell you, Larry is correct. You have things completely backwards. Someone has sold you a bill of goods.

Without starting a major conflict, if you would like to ask me some direct questions about anything I've said, I am happy to address them. After having worked first hand with all types of coating formulations for nearly a decade, I have accumulated a fair bit of data to support my position. Additionally, if you get me in over my head, I can always call on our chemist to clear things up. He actually went to school for this stuff and has one of them fancy diplomas!

Deck Guy · Apr 15th, 07, 12:41 PM

Russell,

I will be calling this week about use of HD-80, but just to clarify on the Timber Oil...

As opposed to RS, I should give the wood one thin coat, rather than giving it all it will take, and then a second coat??

Jarrod · Apr 15th, 07, 01:16 PM

Russell, with your obvious knowledge and integrity, it's amazing that some people are still trying to discredit you. I understand people asking questions and all, but jeeze! They should do it respectfully!

I think that it's good to challenge ideas & products, for that sake of the industry, but not for the sake of feeding oversized egos!

I have to stick up for Russell here. I know what it's like to have arrows dipped in ego and shot at me too.

**PressurePros** · Apr 15th, 07, 01:24 PM

It's far easier for some to feel better about themselves by putting others down. The same holds true for companies. I used to get annoyed by this but now I see that when a company or individual partakes in this type of rhetoric or slandering its because they have brought a knife to a gun fight.

Great post, Russell.. very informative.

Deck Guy · Apr 15th, 07, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPetry

Larry,

Careful what you ask for.

If this ever came true, we would be closing up our businesses and looking for a job!

Hell no! I'd become a salesman for them!

Russell Cissell · Apr 15th, 07, 05:42 PM

Larry,

With Wood-Tux you can get away with one thin coat and still get several years of protection because it is extremely high in both resin and pigment solids.

Woodrich Brand Timber Oil is a paraffinic based oil so you still want to apply it heavy. There is some resin in the formula but it is far from being a true "sealer." The higher pigment content simply means it's going to cover a lot better. It will take less Timber Oil to achieve a beautiful finish than with other leading paraffinic oil based products on the market.

You will get better coverage out of our Timber Oil formula than you will other leading brands, but it will not be as high as you will get out of a true sealer.

If you are getting less than 200 square feet per gallon coverage with Wood-Tux, you are most likely over applying. If you get more than 200 square feet per gallon coverage from our Timber Oil, there is a good chance you are under applying.

I hope that helps?