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Thread: A better removal chemical

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    TGS Newbie REHAB Rarely gets any...Frubals REHAB's Avatar
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    A better removal chemical

    I have tried several products to remove graffiti over the past 18 years, but would say that I have only found a few products of all those tested that actually work as claimed, and some, even better than that.

    I have tried taginator, but it has a few hazards that aren't well publicized, and has been banned in areas and use situations where the hazards were exposed. Besides, it is an obnoxious product containg potassium hydroxide, which is a more reactive form of lye.

    there have been others, but to the point:

    one of the best removal products I have ever used is Elephant Snot. It has some use hazards like other products, but seem to be less of a problem. The main product is actually two products- one is the elephant snot gel, and the other is a lighter solvent named shadow max.

    Elephant Snot:
    a gel that is easily applied. I use a 9-inch roller cover and a wire grid in the bucket. roll it on, and leave it for 15 minutes or so, even a day or two, and hit the tag with a 15 degree tip, hot (170 degree) or cold water. it neutralizes into a scum, sort of like alkali, and dries readily. One doesn't end up with much of a problem of toxic runoff, etc.

    I know people that roll it on and come back the next day. it dries to a white coating but is still working on the tag, not the substrate. to re-wet the product, all that is needed is a light spray, seconds before removing the tag. While the substrate is wet, one may notice a shadow of the graffiti, but after the substrate fully dries, most times there is no visble shadow. the product can be re-applied on a wet surface, if additional treatment is needed at the time of washing.

    What I do is pull up and roll the product over a tag, then drive on to the next and next, and next, so that 30 tags or more are under treatment while going back to working on the first tag powerwash removal.

    The stuff is globby, and smells something like a forest latrine. PPE should include an impervious disposable cover suit (tyvek) with elastic cuffs, and a hood. Cotton gloves, a face shield, and a hat, and a few rags. care should be taken to wipe off snot from exposed skin as it works on that, eating a mostly painless (sometimes itchy) hole into the skin, which will heal up in about a week or so.

    I would suggest that the worker eat a good meal before starting the job lineup, rather than take a break later, because it's better to clean up everything, throw away the trash and coveralls, wash the hair and face and hands with a decent shampoo, as well as rinse the worktruck of any snot residue.

    There are some removal issues, but very minimal ones, and more like than not, regional. Elephant Snot can be used in very cold weather, or as in my case, hot weather up to 120 degrees, or on walls that heat up to 150 degrees.

    There is another product that I also use, and that is shadow max, which is a thin liquid product that works well on utility boxes, many substrates and fences, and also removes zylene residues to make a remnant tag invisible. using that, I would suggest PVC or nitrile gloves.

    I am not a salesman, nor have any business interest in this product or sales. Like I said before, it's a product that I have found very satisfactory, and doesn't mar the surface of block, brick, tile, grout, concrete, many plastics, enamelled or stainless boxes, steel or aluminum poles, and more.

    It works well on plastic playground equipment as well.

    as far as a i can tell, elephant snot is a synthetic version of the real thing.

    As for neighborhood beautification, I am sure that you have encountered spots where some well-meaning person painted out graffiti using a splotch of latex paint. What's nice about elephant snot is that it will both remove the latex paint, as well as the underlying graffiti, so a person can restore natural beauty of stone, cinder block, concrete block, vinyl fencing, split face block, factory enamelled goods and garage doors, and lots more.

    it sells out of Minnesota- about $300/5-gallons, sounds like a lot but the products covers a lot of sq ftg, and lasts a relatively long time

  2. #2
    TGS Member ERADicator Rarely gets any...Frubals ERADicator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REHAB View Post
    It sells out of Minnesota- about $300/5-gallons, sounds like a lot but the products covers a lot of sq ftg, and lasts a relatively long time
    I just joined up here, so I'm playing "catch-up" on all this good information. I just Googled "Elaphant Snot," and found out that it's even on eBay!
    To add to what REHAB wrote, the company is Graffiti Solutions, and they operate both graffitisolutions.com and elephantsnot.com; besides the ES and the Shadow Max mentioned aove, they also have something called Smooth Max. That got a good review from somebody at the Mass. Bay Transportation Authority, where they used it to get tagging off a transit car.
    As of today, the "Buy It Now" price for ES was $70 for a gallon, or $120 for a case of six quarts.
    I, too, have no financial interest in the company, and I haven't tried any of the products yet. I just know that some day, I'm going to run up against a job where the less-hazardous products I prefer to use won't work, and I'll have to go to something more "fierce."

    Edit: Just discovered they have a Starter Kit, with a quart each of ES and Shadow Max, for $39. Big info on that page, almost MSDS-like, about both. I'm headed back there to scope it out.
    Last edited by ERADicator; Mar 15th, 09 at 07:40 PM.

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    TGS Platinum Member PressurePros Has a few Frubals tucked away for safe keeping PressurePros Has a few Frubals tucked away for safe keeping PressurePros Has a few Frubals tucked away for safe keeping PressurePros's Avatar
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    This whole thread smells fishy.

    Poster one you make some claims about Taginator with no proof and just foolish rhetoric. Then you make a claim for another product that obviously contains caustic but you down play that.

    Two guys with no signature? You both get Spam Of The Week Awards.
    Last edited by PressurePros; Mar 15th, 09 at 07:44 PM.
    Ken Fenner - UAMCC Contractor Member
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  4. #4
    Senior Forum Leader Scott Stone Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Scott Stone Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Scott Stone Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Scott Stone Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Scott Stone Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Scott Stone Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Scott Stone's Avatar
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    I have used both, and have both in my shop. Elephant snot is a great graffiti eliminator, but, so is Taginator. I have to admit though, the estimation of a lesion created by Elephant snot healing in a week or so is, at best, highly underestimated. I had one on my hand for 5 weeks. There is still a scar, and has been there for about 4 years now. It does work good, and shadow max is really quite similar to taginator in performance.
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    TGS Member ERADicator Rarely gets any...Frubals ERADicator's Avatar
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    Whew; thanks, Scott.
    Ken, sorry if it seemed it was just "spamming" for the stuff. I am planning to get a starter kit (and a lot of PPE) and compare ES to Taginator. I am also about to purchase a Value Deal of Taginator/Tagaway, and those will probably be the first things I try on any job.

    I'll admit, I have very few posts here, but I think REHAB has been around awhile, as evidenced by some of his other threads that I'm still reading through, absorbing all the information.

    Now to go work on a good signature for here. What, no "truce flag" smilie?

  6. #6
    Site Admin(s) Beth n Rod Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Beth n Rod Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Beth n Rod Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Beth n Rod Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Beth n Rod Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Beth n Rod Should be given Frubals often for being so nice Beth n Rod's Avatar
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    I would have questioned this thread too....and will go so far as to gently say spam is heavily frowned upon.

    Beth
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    TGS Member ERADicator Rarely gets any...Frubals ERADicator's Avatar
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    I understand completely, Beth. I dislike spam as much as I dislike graffiti, and I have yet to meet anyone in my area who is as much of a "holy terror" about graffiti as I am. If I were a spammer, I wouldn't be sticking around to answer any of this.

    As for my lack of a signature, I'm still getting my business going, so there isn't much to put in there as yet.

    I did make it over to the Club House to post an introduction, so there's some info there about where I'm coming from and how I arrived here.

    Back to removal products: I'm really looking forward to getting my supplies in, so I can go out and start cleaning up some messes, maybe doing some side-by-side tests of the products and getting some pics/videos.

    Speaking of PPE, anybody know where I can get one of these ? {hee, hee}

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    TGS Platinum Member Camelot Can never get enough Frubals Camelot's Avatar
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    This whole thread smells fishy.

    Poster one you make some claims about Taginator with no proof and just foolish rhetoric. Then you make a claim for another product that obviously contains caustic but you down play that.

    Two guys with no signature? You both get Spam Of The Week Awards.
    LMAO...Ken, I wish you'd stop sugar coating everything and just say what you mean...

  9. #9
    TGS Newbie CO2Solutions Rarely gets any...Frubals CO2Solutions's Avatar
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    Well, it's worth giving it a try - I've used a few different products now and found Taginator to work the best...however, I hate working with it! I use full PPE when doing graffiti but there was this one time when some over spray got in between the top of my mask and tyvek on my forehead. Needless to say, my forehead was a mess for a week or two...lol

    I'll give ES a shot and see how it works in comparison - and post results. It's spring so I have a ton of graffiti to do!

  10. #10
    TGS Member ERADicator Rarely gets any...Frubals ERADicator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO2Solutions View Post
    I use full PPE when doing graffiti but there was this one time when some over spray got in between the top of my mask and tyvek on my forehead. Needless to say, my forehead was a mess for a week or two...lol
    Yowww!!! I hate it when that happens.

    I'll give ES a shot and see how it works in comparison - and post results. It's spring so I have a ton of graffiti to do!
    It's that time of year.
    I'm still waiting on the "goop" I'm going to try, but the Big Brown Van just dropped off the coveralls and goggles I ordered. Sounds like a full face shield might be a good investment, too.

    I've downloaded an MSDS for everything, but some of it is "proprietary" or "TRADE SECRET" stuff, so all that's for sure is that you have to be careful with it. Taginator and Tagaway have different concentrations of KOH, which Wikipedia calls a "prototypical 'strong base'," so that narrows it down a little.
    ES is probably similar, maybe a higher concentration.

    Might have to get some litmus strips, so I'll know just what to use to neutralize some of these things.
    E.R.A.D.--Efficient Removal of Antisocial Damage

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  11. #11
    TGS Platinum Member big mike Rarely gets any...Frubals big mike's Avatar
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    Both Taginator and Elephant Snot are good products. I've used both with good results. I think the first post was just meant as a scare tactic so folks will shy away from this type of work. I think most folks here understand the importance of PPE, and could handle either product with ease.

    My take on the products are that ES doesn't dissolve as well as Taginator with water. When rinsing ES, globs fly and land wherever, yuck! Tougher to clean up. I know the City of Minneapolis uses ES exclusively for their public works crews, and the reason is it's applied with a roller vs. spraying on. I think most PW contractors are set up to spray rather than roll, thats why we use Taginator exclusively. Just my 2 cents....
    Mike Schoeben
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    TGS Member ERADicator Rarely gets any...Frubals ERADicator's Avatar
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    I talked with the sales manager at EaCo Chem yesterday afternoon. I was going to try their Graffiti Test Kit with Stripper Cream, Graf-EX, and LCS, but the HazMat surcharge for UPS was more than two-thirds of the price of the products. Hmm, yathink it could be the lye (NaOH) in the Stripper Cream? The MSDS for LCS calls for "chemical resistant gloves, goggles, and apron," too.

    Decided to try a gallon of the Graf-Ex instead. It's classified a combustible liquid, and can be an irritant, but it'll get here for just the basic shipping cost. I think I'll start out with that on a lot of jobs, and save the caustics for things like unpainted concrete. We have plenty of places around here that'll need the heavy-duty stuff.
    E.R.A.D.--Efficient Removal of Antisocial Damage

    Graffiti Eradication in Midcoast Maine

    *Specializing in Railroad Equipment & Environs
    *Roadway Worker Protection (49 CFR 214 Subpart C) Qualified

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    TGS Newbie graffitiremover Rarely gets any...Frubals graffitiremover's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried the smart elite graffiti remover. info can be found at smartgraffiti. com. I have been using this for over 5 years in australia with a 95% success rate with no shadowsand can be used on any surfaces. As for saftey if you get it on you a quick rinse with water or wet rag and the chemical is gone. no marks or sores.

  14. #14
    TGS Member D_Tagr Rarely gets any...Frubals D_Tagr's Avatar
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    Both Elephant Snot and Taginator are effective removers. As both are strong bases (high PH) keep some mild acids on hand like vinegar or a few tetrapacks of orange juice for spills or personal exposure.

    3 points:

    1. You will never find one product that will remove "everything" in spite of some manufacturers claims to the contrary. Chemistry is very complex and there are too many variables,too many substances and chemical elements to react with each other. Some of you will have noticed by now that a lot of removers have difficulty with blue pigments. Expect to carry several different products from more than one manufacturer to field a complete kit.
    2. All removers have some type of hazard level. Pros carry respirators, chemical resistant gloves,full face shield and chemical resistant coveralls. This should be enough protection for you and/or your employees. "White suits" will simply panic the public and/or distract yourself or your employees. You may even get a visit from your official "Haz Mat" team. You had better have all of your MSD's and business licences, and insurance certificates up to date and on location.
    3. NEVER leave the property if you have put a caustic or otherwise hazardous chemical on a wall to dwell. It may be efficient to drive all over hell's half acre slapping chemical on walls and then going back to PW but it is not safe to the public or to your wallet. Members of the public will get it on their hands, their suits, their jackets and sue you. Deservedly so. If you wish to argue this point please get written permission from your attorney first.
    Chris Stephenson
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