HF Education

[gregative]

I've been pw for a year now & 1/2 of that 2stepping. Has anyone done extended research on the effects of diluted HF & long term exposure. While most everyone knows how bad the strong stuff is, what about the weak stuff. I dilute mine 1acid to 4water & then downstream. While not strong enough to burn skin or eyes what is it doing at this level. I watch the wind & overspray but you're still getting some on you/in you at some point. Most research I've done only talks about how deadly the raw form is. I did find something about excessive fluoride making strong but brittle bones. Wanted to see what education is out there cause I know most people 2stepping aren't suited up head to toe.

[gregative]

Wow!! Nobody knows anything? Honeywell, a maker of HF, has some sort of online education that I'm going to check out. I think they only offer it a couple times a year but I will check it out & spread the info if I can.

[PRESSURE PACKED]

Sorry, I Dont Know Much..but Like You When I Saw This Thread I Was Waiting For Someone To Chime In..
P.s. I Do Know If You Get It On Your Finger From Gloves That Let Chemicals In You Will Have Fresh New Skin In About 3 Weeks

[Beth n Rod]

HF: if you are referring to Hydrofluoric Acid, then you are talking about something that if exposed to the skin will penetrate causing deep seated ulcerations and if it gets to the bones it will decompose them. It is pretty nasty stuff. Primarily causes gangrene. Inhalation not only of the user but anyone standing within the drift area can create serious irritation and burns.

This is a product that is best used in a controlled environment where exposure can be limited to a small area and free of wind drift or passersby.

Phosphoric acid is a better choice for 2-step cleaning out in the open areas.

[Christopher]

If you are using or planning using HF Acid (Hydrofluoric Acid) you need to do some research to educate yourself and anyone working with you. HF is one of the worst on the planet. It attacks the calcium in your body and most of the time you do not know it. If you plan on using this product you need to look into keeping some calcium gluconate with you at all times for an emergency. This is one of the most serious things out there as you cannot just wash it off and deal with it. Once it is in your body you need help ASAP! There is a lot of reading out there and you need to start. I could type here all nite but need to do some other things before getting some sleep. There is a lot to learn to be safe. If anyone and I mean ANYONE tells you to not take it so serious or it is not that bad, they are full of you know what and you would be extremely stupid to listen to them. I know about this stuff and seen what the raw potent stuff has done to people. It is DEADLY SERIOUS stuff people.

[Scott Stone]

Look here. Professional Carwashing & Detailing Online :: Brought to you by Grand View Media This is a very good article that explains a lot. For what it is worth, Phos sucks in a two step process.

[crispy crittr]

Cleaner Times Magazine

Here is an article that ran in Cleaner Times several years ago. I hope this helps.

Some of you may have known Bob.

Stay safe and hydrated,
Chuck

[PRESSURE PACKED]

My Concern And What I Want To Know When The Hf Is Splashing On You From Truck To Truck What Is Happening,, I Am Obviously Living Through It But What Is Happening When You Are Not Getting "burned" Or Inhaling 70%. I Think The Stuff We Use In The Field Is Much Less Than That

[Jeffr]

My chemical guy has a product called Fleet Kleen 108LF that is an acid based product that works like HF but without the dangerous effects.

[Jeffr]

I quit using it due to the fact that HF is a calcium seeking chemical. It attacks the skin to get to your bones. Very Dangerous!!!!!!!!!

[Tmrrptr]

Hydrofluoric Acid

What a great product to simply stay away from !

Thank You TGS for making that very clear to me !

Years in construction... codes and common techniques certainly getting more complicated to follow. In the end, the consumer will have a better product.

Several years in painting trades... "They" will eventually have all the oil based products pulled from the shelves and it shall go the way of lead based paint.

It's a good thing.
We called newer latex formulations "painter friendly products."
And they are... Nice warm water soapy washup!

We warrant the workmanship, and let the product warranty fall on the manufacturer. If all surfaces will require a more frequent periodic maintenance, so be it.

There is just no point in spoiling a shift to less harmful products by using something as potentially harmful as HF acid just to get a job done quicker.

Now, the problem shall be discovery that accumulated exposure to some of the new replacement products shall end up having an aggregate toxic effect of one kind, or other!

Still, best to work safe as possible so you can work the following day.
r

[gregative]

I was wondering if I would get any answers. I appreciate everyone's responses. As Pressurepacked was asking about, the jist of the post was the "effects" of low level exposure. While I receive HF in a very strong solution, and treat it like a rattlesnake, in the field it is diluted down where it cleans but is not strong enough to burn the skin & would only sting my eyes if I mixed it a little strong. Just looking to see if any studies say a glass of milk at the end of the day would help.

[gregative]

P.S. Does/Has anyone tried muriatic aka hydrochloric on aluminum? I was going to mix a small batch & see. I think I saw ecochem had a product called sabre that used muriatic and says it does not etch glass.

[MMI Enterprises]

Greg,

As a specialty surface prep for aluminum the HF is used in controlled industry situations but as others have made clear it is about the most dangerous stuff on the planet. All it takes is some weird fluke with your equipment prior to dilution and you or a bystander are disfigured with health problems for life or just plainly a gonner. Have fun playing with rattlesnakes if you choose to continue using it. I wonder if storage, transportation rules, or spraying rules are being considered. You sound like you know what your doing but do you know there are state or fed rules on spray equipment such as hvlp sprayers, etc.? The voc concentrations and air pressures spraying them are all under scrutiny far as I can tell.

"Concentrated HF covering 2% of the body can be fatal. " .. have heard cases of less!

"The time to onset of symptoms is related to the concentration of the HF:
• At concentrations greater than 50%: immediate burns appear with rapid destruction of tissue as noted by a whitish discoloration, usually proceeding to blisters, accompanied by severe pain. The pain is typically described as “deep,” “burning” or “throbbing” and is often out of proportion to apparent skin involvement.
• At concentrations between 20 and 50%: burns can be delayed one to eight hours.
• At concentrations less than 20%: painful erythema may be delayed for up to 24 hours. Redness, burning or pain may not show up until several minutes or even hours have elapsed. Thus, the surface area of the burn is not predictive of effects. "