Should pressure washing companies be licensed???

[RPetry]

Hey Rick, Here in Maryland its different from other states I guess. I'm not sure about Beth but people ask about licensing and insurance a lot here. I also have a link on my site where people can check our license status and it get's clicked on a couple hundred times a month. The MHIC activily seeks out unlicensed contractors and contacts them, they also prosecute them too. Theres usually some kind of article, news thing or some other public issue on scam contractors here at least once a month. Like I said before, Maryland seems to be different from what most states do, maybe it's because were so close to the seat of politics, I'm not sure.

Henry,

Sounds like Maryland knows how to regulate and maybe even run an efficient state government.

Here in NJ, our state gov't has the well earned reputation of corruption and lack of professional management, let alone a whiff of fiscal responsibility. Our state and property taxes are among the highest in the nation. We do not get what we pay for...

[bornagainpw]

ANY kind of "business" should hold a business license, otherwise I wouldn't consider it a business

[The Adams Approach]

They should be licensed I think but in the get state of Washington/Oregon most insurance companies jack your insurance up if you pressure wash especially a business. Is that true in all states? If the pressure washer damages the property they at least better have insurance coverage. Both homeowners and businesses should make sur the person is insured.

[Eric B]

I have a very good pressure washing biz, but I also have a good Pesticide biz as well. We use in the pesticide biz, alot of chemicals that can be fatal if not properly handeled, and my guys are not properly trained. I had to take test, I have BU number, Cert numbers, require 2million insurance policies,go to classes every couple of years to keep up my certs on and on. This goes in hand with what henry and others said. We handel chems in wood restoration, concrete on and on. Alot of these chems burn and even put a whole in your skin. Why not make some regs in the industry? Theres alot of guys that are on the up and up, then you have the other guy out there. Somebody mentioned it earlier, get the "other guy"out.

I vote YES

[mountain washer]

I have been power washing since 1984. In 1988 we started doing some landscape contracting after being asked over and over by a couple of nurseries to help them. In 1995 we bought 2 acres near the downtown and built a nursery that we operated for 10 years before selling it. I am opposed to any licensing requirement, at least in Ark. Let me explain>

You are required to be licensed by the State of Arkansas to sell or plant any plant material as a business. You are also required to pass a test and be licensed to apply pesticides. After complaining for years and paying $550.00 a year in license fees, in 2004 I did not renew my licenses and did not attend any recertification classes as required to maintain my license requirements. The state was suddenly going to assess fines and issue stop work orders - until my attorney presented all my documention for the previous 6 years of complaints I filed that were never investigated. I've not bought a license since and the state boys don't come anywhere near me. Did all the license fees make me a better landscape contractor and nurseryman? Nope!!! I still carry my insurance as I always have. Most others don't do that either as far as I know.

Try practicing law or medicine without a license. You are going to jail.

If the government will get out of my way and just leave me alone, I'll do just fine. I can't think of a single valid reason to be licensed to power wash.

[beastud]

Absolutely not!! Listen to yourselves...almost every explanation for liscensing refers to some other restriction on our businesses ( I gotta do this or that so you should have to also or We have to have this or that liscense so powerwashing should have to also. OMG, we are using chems! We need a liscense now even though any homeowner can get and use the same chems without a liscense.......). Everywhere we turn nowadays, Americans are willingly giving up their freedoms under the guise of "the greater good"! The liberals in government just love this stuff that enables them to control us and take our money and then all of a sudden......"Hey what happened! As a business, I can't walk across the street without a liscense! This foolishness has got to stop! I for one will oppose such actions!

[Jim Gamble]

I can only speak for my field. Parking Garage Cleaning.

Back in 1989, there was unlimited amount of pressure washers. Those washers did everything. Prices for Garage Cleaning was just over 2 cents a foot. I know, that's what we did them for in 1989.

In 1991, EPA got involved. Slowly they started to require this and that. I fought like many on these BBS do today. I went to meetings almost monthly and sometimes twice a week to no avail. I use to say, " What happens when it rains, where is all that oil runoff from the roadways going?" Still landed on death ears.

In 1992, since it was evident that I was not making any headway, I had to purchase a filtration system at a cost of $72,000 with no guarantees that this would meet the new requirements of the day.

Those next few years was the toughest for us. We almost went bankrupt.

Now we are at 24 cent a ft. Competition is down from 100's to only 20 or so. Those that you see having a Home Depot pressure washing special are gone. Prices and profits have gone up because of the involvement of the Environmental Agencies that got involved in enforcing these new requirements for a " Greener" environment.

They also make you get discharge permits as well, as to monitor your discharge. This, along with the hefty fines and possible jail time that they can impose makes those low ballers leave the area.

So based on 21 years of history and being on both sides of the fence, I believe it would be in everyones best interest to have some sort of permit process for the type of work they are doing. This would raise the profit margin and your bottom line....... IF IT IS ENFORCED...... by the local authorities.

Another area that now needs special permits as of July 1st 2009....

Lead paint wash and removal. You must be certified.
Asbestos removal and discharge is another... was required to be certified Before 2009. Date ... not sure.

These fields are making BANK. Did everyone complain......... YA they did....... Was there this and that going on ... SURE....... Did some get out of the business because they did not like what was being asked of them... most definitely..... The ones who got certs. and got lic...... Then went and bought the right equipment are now netting 10's of thousands of dollars per location, where before it was in the 100's of dollars, are they complaining as they go to the bank...... NA. But they would be the first ones to complain to other contractors how hard it is. I wonder why?

[beastud]

I can only speak for my field. Parking Garage Cleaning.

Back in 1989, there was unlimited amount of pressure washers. Those washers did everything. Prices for Garage Cleaning was just over 2 cents a foot. I know, that's what we did them for in 1989.

In 1991, EPA got involved. Slowly they started to require this and that. I fought like many on these BBS do today. I went to meetings almost monthly and sometimes twice a week to no avail. I use to say, " What happens when it rains, where is all that oil runoff from the roadways going?" Still landed on death ears.

In 1992, since it was evident that I was not making any headway, I had to purchase a filtration system at a cost of $72,000 with no guarantees that this would meet the new requirements of the day.

Those next few years was the toughest for us. We almost went bankrupt.

Now we are at 24 cent a ft. Competition is down from 100's to only 20 or so. Those that you see having a Home Depot pressure washing special are gone. Prices and profits have gone up because of the involvement of the Environmental Agencies that got involved in enforcing these new requirements for a " Greener" environment.

They also make you get discharge permits as well, as to monitor your discharge. This, along with the hefty fines and possible jail time that they can impose makes those low ballers leave the area.

So based on 21 years of history and being on both sides of the fence, I believe it would be in everyones best interest to have some sort of permit process for the type of work they are doing. This would raise the profit margin and your bottom line....... IF IT IS ENFORCED...... by the local authorities.

Another area that now needs special permits as of July 1st 2009....

Lead paint wash and removal. You must be certified.
Asbestos removal and discharge is another... was required to be certified Before 2009. Date ... not sure.

These fields are making BANK. Did everyone complain......... YA they did....... Was there this and that going on ... SURE....... Did some get out of the business because they did not like what was being asked of them... most definitely..... The ones who got certs. and got lic...... Then went and bought the right equipment are now netting 10's of thousands of dollars per location, where before it was in the 100's of dollars, are they complaining as they go to the bank...... NA. But they would be the first ones to complain to other contractors how hard it is. I wonder why?

Good intentions that will lead to unintended consequences. So you really want the government regulations determining who the winners are? You like it because you are one of the winners. Well good for you! I am a firm believer that I might not care what the rules are as long as I know what they are. You made the rules work for you, been there! You will sing a different tune when they change the rules and raise the liscense restrictions to the point that no one can comply, been there also. The problem with your experience is you and the rest of us have never experienced the type of political climate that is in Washington today........beware what you wish for! ANYONE asking our current government to regulate their business is acting idiotically and naively.
Do not think that your local government will be any different than the feds. With all the money from the Feds going to bail out the states...the feds will call the shots or pull their money from the states meaning...the feds will call the shots.
It is a brave new world! A liberal, progressive world and we are all in deep sh#t!!

[Jim Gamble]

Good intentions that will lead to unintended consequences. So you really want the government regulations determining who the winners are? You like it because you are one of the winners. Well good for you! I am a firm believer that I might not care what the rules are as long as I know what they are. You made the rules work for you, been there! You will sing a different tune when they change the rules and raise the liscense restrictions to the point that no one can comply, been there also. The problem with your experience is you and the rest of us have never experienced the type of political climate that is in Washington today........beware what you wish for! ANYONE asking our current government to regulate their business is acting idiotically and naively.
Do not think that your local government will be any different than the feds. With all the money from the Feds going to bail out the states...the feds will call the shots or pull their money from the states meaning...the feds will call the shots.
It is a brave new world! A liberal, progressive world and we are all in deep sh#t!!

Russ,

I respect what you say and do not want full government control. I did not want to live in Russia which is what you seem to be saying.

All I have said is that I fought tooth and nail for years. I did not have the Millions of dollars to change anything. I could not go up against " Green Peace" or other orgs that are very well funded in the Mil's.

You will sing a different tune when they change the rules and raise the liscense restrictions to the point that no one can comply, been there also.

I am not really worried about that. There are a few states such as Arizona, California, Oregon, Maryland etc that are far more restrictive then the Federal CWA guidelines. Any State / County can increase it's restrictions above any Federal standard. They just cannot go below it. The federal Guidelines are the foundation, the state can build from that.

As far as the Government going crazy, It would not be in their best interest. Even today, my area is requiring filtration for any oil removal. But they do not require you to get a $50,000+ filtration unit or any certain manufacture. They just want you to get a medium size filtration unit that can handle the flow and particles to be filtered. I do not see any restrictions that cannot be met.

The only thing that is a pain is the paper work that they make you fill out for the permit process.

So if your state lets you dump caustic down the storm drain, lets you dump hundreds, if not, thousands of gallons of class II hazardous waste in the landscape ( Gas Stations, Parking lots, Parking Garages, for example ) then I could see why you do not want them to come in your area. This would mean that you would have to raise your prices to cover the expense. However, that would be for everyone in your field.... not just you.

May I suggest that you ask your local authorities when it will be enforced and start researching as to what equipment to buy to meet those requirements. Then show them that you are complying with the new laws and ask to be put on their approved vender's list. Thats how I did it back in 1992. I was the only one on the list for 5 to 6 years. They did not recommend me, it was just that I was the only one for Garage Cleaning that met or exceeded the requirements for garage cleaning.

The Government wants you to succeed so that you make money so that they can tax you instead of being on government assistance. ( NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE ON ANY ASSISTANCE, sometimes people read between the lines on these BBS. Just want to make that clear. )

So have I made good money because of this, yes. Am I looking at the next generation of filtration technologies, yes. Is it required as of today... NO. But I am getting ready for the day it is. That day could be 10 years from now, but I am continuing to research and learn for the day it dose come.

[tonyshelton]

Jim, you and I have had this conversation before, you know what I'm going to say, so don't take offense. And for everybody else, Jim is far more conservative than his posts reveal.

Your state is bankrupt. Your state is the most perfect example of why over regulation and excessive taxation is a FAILING proposition.

Is your water cleaner. No. Is your air cleaner (cleaner than it was in 1970, but no cleaner than any other state even with your excessive emissions requirements)

Are your roads better with your higher taxation? No. The roads in California are beginning to look like Mexico.

Aren't your property taxes the same as mine? Then why isn't Nevada bankrupt? You pay many times more state income tax than we pay, (Nevada has zero, not even a corporate income tax)

Why not change the conversation and tell us the devastation your state has experienced because of the nimrod politicians who levy the fines and make the laws?

How about the I.O.U's your state workers have had to take for pay? Eliminate the wasteful inspectors and redundant government agencies and get back in the black!

I don't understand why we, as business owners, can't understand the simple principal that the goal of government is to TAKE AWAY what you (you being 1 voter) earn and give it to a bunch of other non-business owners who have many votes (and that includes your employees). This ensures RE-ELECTION and perpetuates class ENVY!

They take this away from us via fees, taxes, fines, and levies. They use the media to plant seeds of fear in everyone's head (voters) i.e. "the public needs to be "protected" from unscrupulous contractors" and "the government needs to "regulate" all these chemicals" (that you, the consumer can buy legally).

Bottom line is this. Business regulates itself. Bad work can only continue as long as there is no one there to do a better job for a lower price. It's just plain old economic law.

If a contractor's goal is to raise prices by lobbying government to HELP you raise prices through more regulation then you are a **** poor contractor who can't compete on a level field and should have your a** beaten and should be thrown out of town. (Not a reference to you Jim, I know you have fought against the regs in the past)

Whew.... I just don't understand why so many people can be duped by the government charade.

[cleanhoods]

I think there should be some sort of gov. # that you must give your customer so if a crappy job is discovered you can be tracked and the customers can revue your track record as well.Thats all.
Marko

[Jim Gamble]

Jim, you and I have had this conversation before, you know what I'm going to say, so don't take offense. And for everybody else, Jim is far more conservative than his posts reveal.

Your state is bankrupt. Your state is the most perfect example of why over regulation and excessive taxation is a FAILING proposition.

Is your water cleaner. No. Is your air cleaner (cleaner than it was in 1970, but no cleaner than any other state even with your excessive emissions requirements)

Are your roads better with your higher taxation? No. The roads in California are beginning to look like Mexico.

Aren't your property taxes the same as mine? Then why isn't Nevada bankrupt? You pay many times more state income tax than we pay, (Nevada has zero, not even a corporate income tax)

Why not change the conversation and tell us the devastation your state has experienced because of the nimrod politicians who levy the fines and make the laws?

How about the I.O.U's your state workers have had to take for pay? Eliminate the wasteful inspectors and redundant government agencies and get back in the black!

I don't understand why we, as business owners, can't understand the simple principal that the goal of government is to TAKE AWAY what you (you being 1 voter) earn and give it to a bunch of other non-business owners who have many votes (and that includes your employees). This ensures RE-ELECTION and perpetuates class ENVY!

They take this away from us via fees, taxes, fines, and levies. They use the media to plant seeds of fear in everyone's head (voters) i.e. "the public needs to be "protected" from unscrupulous contractors" and "the government needs to "regulate" all these chemicals" (that you, the consumer can buy legally).

Bottom line is this. Business regulates itself. Bad work can only continue as long as there is no one there to do a better job for a lower price. It's just plain old economic law.

If a contractor's goal is to raise prices by lobbying government to HELP you raise prices through more regulation then you are a **** poor contractor who can't compete on a level field and should have your a** beaten and should be thrown out of town. (Not a reference to you Jim, I know you have fought against the regs in the past)

Whew.... I just don't understand why so many people can be duped by the government charade.

Tony, you ARE THE MAN !!!!! As far as the state, don't worry, your state and others is not far behind.

There is one thing that was on the PBS that I saw the other day. Because of the storm water restrictions in regards to settlement, the Bay Authorities in 1970 estimated in 2010 that the bay would be so filled in that it would be a good size river by now. Instead, the bay is actually BIGGER AND CLEANER than is was in 1970. Since ALL storm water enters the BAY, they have seen marked improvements in the Bay. They still have along way to go, but with the population being over twice the size then in 1970, the pollution has kept up with the increase of population when it comes to the bay.

So in Short form, all of these restrictions are helping when it comes to the bay. The question is..... Is there a better way to accomplish the same thing?

[tonyshelton]

Tony, you ARE THE MAN !!!!! As far as the state, don't worry, your state and others is not far behind.

There is one thing that was on the PBS that I saw the other day. Because of the storm water restrictions in regards to settlement, the Bay Authorities in 1970 estimated in 2010 that the bay would be so filled in that it would be a good size river by now. Instead, the bay is actually BIGGER AND CLEANER than is was in 1970. Since ALL storm water enters the BAY, they have seen marked improvements in the Bay. They still have along way to go, but with the population being over twice the size then in 1970, the pollution has kept up with the increase of population when it comes to the bay.

So in Short form, all of these restrictions are helping when it comes to the bay. The question is..... Is there a better way to accomplish the same thing?

The restrictions were initially made on businesses because large construction and manufacturing plants were using the local waterways as a free dumping ground. Even so, with the government always looking for a way to take in more money they started the NPDES program which basically says "if you pay us enough, you can pollute with a permit".

NPDES is set up specifically for point-source polution such as manufacturing plants or construction sites.

Why is there no permitting for cosmetic cleaning? Because there's just not enough money in it to bother with and it is too difficult to implement. On the other hand, there is always the looming threat of fines to bring in more money.

It's time we stood up with one voice and demand the common sense reign and fight for cosmetic cleaning up to xxxxxxx gallons per year be completely exempt.

Here is what happened just last year in the pesticide industry.

The pesticide companies had been playing both sides. While the MSDS labels and instructions state that the chems can't be put in the "waters of the us" or "storm drain". They held a COMPLETE exemption from the EPA. Tree huggers took them to court and the pesticide companies holding hands with their friend the EPA (imagine that) went to bat against the tree huggers in court.

The tree huggers won this time..

PESTICIDES people - THE EPA WENT TO COURT TO FIGHT FOR THE RIGHT OF COMPANIES TO ALLOW PESTICIDE RUNOFF INTO THE STORM DRAIN!!!!!!!

If the EPA will fight to allow PESTICIDES in the BAY then why in the world is it so inconceivable that we can't get cosmetic cleaning exempted?????????????

Look up the decision. It was in the 6th circuit court of appeals.

[Beth n Rod]

There is a point to be made here since this part is deceiving in its implications about taxes in this specific case.

Aren't your property taxes the same as mine? Then why isn't Nevada bankrupt? You pay many times more state income tax than we pay, (Nevada has zero, not even a corporate income tax)

Nevada does not require personal income tax from its residents and corporate taxes are offset by the CASINO'S.
NGCB (Nevada Gaming Control Board) takes a hefty taxation from gambling profits and those are substantial enough that they help to cover the states expenses not including revenues generated by Gaming/non-gaming cards and health cards. These are required to be obtained by anyone employed in the state in various trades and professions. These are the equivalent of a business license for the employed.

FYI, I worked in many casinos in vegas and lived there for close to 10 years, got to know some pretty influential people and learn many of the facts concerning revenue generation. It's a well oiled machine and no I can't tell you how to win any better than the next person.

Rod!~

[tonyshelton]

There is a point to be made here since this part is deceiving in its implications about taxes in this specific case.


Nevada does not require personal income tax from its residents and corporate taxes are offset by the CASINO'S.
NGCB (Nevada Gaming Control Board) takes a hefty taxation from gambling profits and those are substantial enough that they help to cover the states expenses not including revenues generated by Gaming/non-gaming cards and health cards. These are required to be obtained by anyone employed in the state in various trades and professions. These are the equivalent of a business license for the employed.

FYI, I worked in many casinos in vegas and lived there for close to 10 years, got to know some pretty influential people and learn many of the facts concerning revenue generation. It's a well oiled machine and no I can't tell you how to win any better than the next person.

Rod!~

Rod Casinos are an industry just like car manufacturing is in Michgan, oil refining in Texas, tourism in Florida and logging in Oregon.

It's up to each state FIND the industry that is bringing in the cash and WORK WITH that industry to collect taxes on revenue and operate within it's means.

The casino tax in Las Vegas is NOT excessive. Every year the teachers unions and a bunch of other crying liberals with their hands out try to get the taxes raised. The legislature is more than happy to do that, but the governor won't play ball. He knows it could be the death of our state.

Nevada knows how to walk that line and stand up to the whining workers unions and teachers unions that could bring this state down like they have California and Michigan. You see, if you overtax (and over regulate) your best producers THEY WILL LEAVE!

Most of these Casinos couldn't give a crap about being here in Las Vegas. They are making more money in China right now. For every Casino here in Las Vegas, there are at least two sister casinos in places like China and the middle east. They could leave this state a ghost town in no time and we couldn't do anything about it.

This state has taken a desert area with nothing to offer and turned it into a revenue generating machine. And Rod, things have changed since you left. There are no longer any "non-gaming" licenses to work or "background checks" to work in various industries. They were declared unconstitutional in 2007. There are still "gaming" and "health" cards for people who work in casinos around money and for people who serve food and work in the health industry. This is mostly to make sure they have been screened and don't have anything contagious. And the cost for the most expensive one is $20.00/yr.

I don't think my post was misleading. I think our state has a maverick attitude and our taxes stay low because we conservatives still remain in control. Unlike California which has committed fiscal suicide by letting its liberal policies buy programs it's revenue can't pay for.

Here, take a look at our governor telling the teacher's unions where to stick it.

YouTube - Nevada Governor Jim Gibbons 2010 State of the State Part 2 of 2