Newbie Question? PM I Received A Day Ago

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Here is a PM I received a day ago.
I have already talked to Jeff, and made a suggestion for him to try a suggestion.
I am re printing this PM, and my response to it, to add to the knowledge base for roofs with excessive atmospheric pollutants, and the problems faced by non pressure roof cleaners who obtain weak Sodium Hypochlorite Solutions.

Here is the PM, my response to Jeff is below it in blue.

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Jeff J
TGS Newbie



Posts: 0
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Laporte TX
Online




Hi Chris - Today, 07:46 AM




Chris,

Hi my name is Jeff Jones and my son and I have recently gotten into the roof cleaning business. We actually started about two months ago and have cleaned 7 shingle roofs. 5 of them were single story walkable and two were two story with very steep roofs that we actually had to use repelling gear to access and clean.
Before venturing into this business I spent about 4 months reading through most all of the threads on The Grime Scene forum dating way back to ’04. Tons and tons of very helpful information as you know because you yourself supplied a great deal of it. I actually joined after awhile but have yet to respond to any of the threads or start one of my own.

I feel I can talk somewhat intelligently about certain aspects of the business from what I have read from the forum and the little I’ve learned from actually doing the work. I’ve tried using the different mixes discussed on the forum plus a few concoctions of my own. The one I have decided to stick with is your “Apple Sauce”.

Although you and your Apple Sauce has earned my son and I as a fan we seem to be having a few issues that we can’t seem to figure out on our own and we’re basically asking for you help.

My son and I live along the Gulf Coast here in Texas, Laporte to exact. We have been through the burning of grass and plants and have learned from our mistakes. The equipment we use is the roof cleaning start up kit purchased through Pressure Tek. (Delevan pump 5/8’ hose PVC wand etc). The equipment serves our purposes for now but we have plans to upgrade in the future.

The issues we are having…. We spray “ The Sauce” onto the roofs (all of the roofs we have done have been at least 75% covered with the algae, pollutants etc.)
We can see visible changes within minutes of the application however, the discoloration does not disappear completely. The roof is black initially and after we spray it the black turns to a brown rust looking color. We spray again and the brown rust color lightens up a few more shades. We end up re-spraying 4 and sometimes 5 times to return the shingles to normal color. I’m certain the rust looking color I mentioned is just the dead algae that can be rinsed away but I was really hoping to get away from rinsing altogether. I seem to have problems with burning vegetation when I rinse. The mix I use is 40/60 water/shc(12.5%) along with TSP and Borax. I’ve tried the “Apple Cider” and had basically the same results

My son and I love working together. I realize we are still wet behind the ears in this business but these roofs Chris have really been kicking our azz. I’ve read on the forums that the experienced roof cleaners have cleaned average size roofs (2000 sq. ft) in a couple of hours or less. The last roof we cleaned was Saturday June 7th. It was a two story that we had to use the repelling gear on. We had to spray it several times to get the look we wanted (I didn’t want to have to rinse) anyway we worked on it for eight hours Saturday and had to go back and finish on Sunday and spent another 5 hours. Although the roof looks great and customer is happy I’m just now feeling back to normal. I’m in pretty good shape and 47 years old and that roof beat the crap out of me. I know I still have a lot to learn and with experience comes speed and efficiency but I don’t feel like I have improved as far as speed goes. I was wondering if there is something I’m doing wrong. I know every roof is different but even smaller walkable roofs are taking us 4-6 hours to clean. Mainly due to multiple spray applications. Any advice you could offer Chris would be helpful I know.
You know, my son and I have entertained the idea of coming to Florida and offering free labor to you for experience but that’s just a dream right now. It is neat though as much as I’ve read on the Grime Scene from you and some of the other veterans over the last several months I almost feel like I know you guys without ever meeting you.

Thanks Chris I appreciate all the knowledge you’ve given me already

Jeff



Jeff, it was nice talking to you on the phone today!
As we discussed, WEAK SH solutions can make all of us look bad.
You told me that you are confident that is NOT the case here.
You also told me that being your clean in an Oil and Factory Town, you feel atmospheric pollutants are the culprit.

Several non pressure roof cleaners I have taught over the years in places like with dirty air have had great success with adding some Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide to their mix.

As I told you, some of my old "students swear by a product called Powerhouse added to their mix. http://sunbrite.stores.yahoo.net/powerhouse.html

I have not tried Powerhouse, but looked at the MSDS.
I has a BUNCH of potent cleaners in it, and I can see why some like it.

I live in Florida, no atmospheric pollutants here.

I HAVE used both Potassium and Sodium Hydroxide in a few Tile Roof Mixes, works GREAT !

You told me you can get some Alkaline Soap/De greaser with a PH of 14 with Sodium Hydroxide in it !

This will be very effective mixed with the sh and water.

Most times, the TSP in the Apple Sauce will take care of atmospheric pollutants.
But SOMETIMES, the addition of a small amount of Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide is very effective.

There already IS Sodium Hydroxide in ALL Sodium Hypochlorite.

Yep, it is a byproduct of the manufacturing process, and left in there to increase shelf life.

All we are doing is adding a LITTLE more, to aid in cleaning of super heavy deposits.

[Jeff J]

Chris-
It was my pleasure talking with you the other day. I appreciate the suggestions you offered. My son and I had a roof job yesterday and I added the SH you suggested to deal with the problem we have been having. Although we seemed to have had the same problem as we had been having I think the culprit this time was a weak batch of SHC that I had just picked up the day before. As I mentioned my mix has been 40/60 water and SHC which is what was used on this roof. I increased the strength to a 50/50 mix and that seamed to be pretty well. I'm certain the addition of the SH helped I will just have to pay close attention to the strength of the SHC I get. I realized during the cleaning of this roof that the SHC was'nt as fresh as usual. I've attached a few pictures of the roof we just cleaned. A before pic, a pic after spraying and the results of the weak solution and a pic of the results after increasing the the SHC in the mix. The pic after spraying is identical to what we have been experiencing on every roof we clean.

[Jeff J]

Chris
Not sure what happened to the attachments when I figure it out I will send them

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Jeff J

Chris-
It was my pleasure talking with you the other day. I appreciate the suggestions you offered. My son and I had a roof job yesterday and I added the SH you suggested to deal with the problem we have been having. Although we seemed to have had the same problem as we had been having I think the culprit this time was a weak batch of SHC that I had just picked up the day before. As I mentioned my mix has been 40/60 water and SHC which is what was used on this roof. I increased the strength to a 50/50 mix and that seamed to be pretty well. I'm certain the addition of the SH helped I will just have to pay close attention to the strength of the SHC I get. I realized during the cleaning of this roof that the SHC was'nt as fresh as usual. I've attached a few pictures of the roof we just cleaned. A before pic, a pic after spraying and the results of the weak solution and a pic of the results after increasing the the SHC in the mix. The pic after spraying is identical to what we have been experiencing on every roof we clean.

SH can now be bought at Wal Mart ya know ?

I have been helping people clean roofs for many years.
Almost always, the problem is weak SHC.
Still, the addition of a LITTLE SH helps with atmospheric.'
USUALLY, shc and TSP with Borax will take care of anything.
But every now and then, some SH helps.
SH - sodium hydroxide
shc - sodium hypochlorite

[Jeff J]

The SH can be used in place of the TSP and Borax?

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Jeff J

The SH can be used in place of the TSP and Borax?

No, that is not what I meant.
We use a little SH in the mix ONLY as a "last ditch" effort, when all else has failed.
It is important to remember ALL SHC contains SH anyway.
You dont want to add more then 2 or 3 percent EXTRA SH to the SHC.
More is not better, and can upset the equilibrium of the cleaning reaction taking place when SH contacts organic matter.
How much did you add ?