Intermediate Question Roof cleaning start up kit...

[Off D Wall]

Hi everyone!!!

First i would like to say thank you to all you that are sharing the knowledge that they have acquire along the years on this website so that other can learn succeed from it you guys are the best.

I started my P/W biz a year ago this month ,i had went all out got the set-up brand new 12x6 double axxl trailer, 200 gal water suply tank , 2 - 25gal chemical tank ,300 ft hose , titan reels ,2 surface cleaner, 4000psi 4Gpm p/w cold only but for now it work for me ,not much interested in the hood cleaning or gas station stuff.
I was offer by the place i got my equipement to add a low pressure roof cleaning set up ,wich i didnt belive i would ever need it at the time (ya right) after a year of cleaning tile roof whit surface cleaner and shingle roof whit p/w set to low its enough!!
for the last month i have been reading and reading and reading whenever i have a minute i am in the roof cleaning thread i am now @ page 30.

thas what i got so far!
-Apple sauce ( thanks to Chris )
-don wand ( thanks to Don )
-experience on what to do or not when working whit the above ( thank to all of you roof cleaner )

I know most of you would say go all out from the start and get the right/best stuff .....
but for now i was thinking to go a different route, and use what i got and buy the less expensive stuff as long it last me for about 10 jobs its all good because all profit will be going to be reinvested into the good stuff
got 5 job line up already and dont have the set-up yet.

-already got 200gal tank that i can use .
-thinking about getting 1.8gal 60psi shurflo for 69.99 or should i get the2.8 40psi shurflo for 84.99?
-3/8" X 300' Clear Polybraid Hose from pressure tek for 70.67 would this hose work?
-got the sh,borax but i cant find no tsp around here went everywhere they just have the small box ,i might gonna have to drive to tampa ....

like i say if this could get me through like 10 jobs it would work for me
lemme know wat you guys think.

thank you in advance

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Off D Wall

Hi everyone!!!

First i would like to say thank you to all you that are sharing the knowledge that they have acquire along the years on this website so that other can learn succeed from it you guys are the best.

I started my P/W biz a year ago this month ,i had went all out got the set-up brand new 12x6 double axxl trailer, 200 gal water suply tank , 2 - 25gal chemical tank ,300 ft hose , titan reels ,2 surface cleaner, 4000psi 4Gpm p/w cold only but for now it work for me ,not much interested in the hood cleaning or gas station stuff.
I was offer by the place i got my equipement to add a low pressure roof cleaning set up ,wich i didnt belive i would ever need it at the time (ya right) after a year of cleaning tile roof whit surface cleaner and shingle roof whit p/w set to low its enough!!
for the last month i have been reading and reading and reading whenever i have a minute i am in the roof cleaning thread i am now @ page 30.

thas what i got so far!
-Apple sauce ( thanks to Chris )
-don wand ( thanks to Don )
-experience on what to do or not when working whit the above ( thank to all of you roof cleaner )

I know most of you would say go all out from the start and get the right/best stuff .....
but for now i was thinking to go a different route, and use what i got and buy the less expensive stuff as long it last me for about 10 jobs its all good because all profit will be going to be reinvested into the good stuff
got 5 job line up already and dont have the set-up yet.

-already got 200gal tank that i can use .
-thinking about getting 1.8gal 60psi shurflo for 69.99 or should i get the2.8 40psi shurflo for 84.99?
-3/8" X 300' Clear Polybraid Hose from pressure tek for 70.67 would this hose work?
-got the sh,borax but i cant find no tsp around here went everywhere they just have the small box ,i might gonna have to drive to tampa ....

like i say if this could get me through like 10 jobs it would work for me
lemme know wat you guys think.

thank you in advance

My advice ?
Spend 130 dollars, get the Delavan 12 volt pump, and use regular 5/8 garden hose until you can afford better hose.Delavan Pumps - Roof Cleaning / AG Pumps & Supplies
It will last for awhile if you rinse it out.
Small diameter hose, on any low pressure pump will reduce flow/pressure.
The bigger the hose, the less pressure drop, and the more flow you will get.
5/8 is a common garden hose size, and seems about the right compromise between performance and ease of use.

Always cut the metal connectors off the garden hose, and use THICK plastic connectors to join two pieces of hose together.
Some just use a double barb hose joiner, clamped well.
After doing some roofs, replace this makeshift hose with some PVC hose like Goodyear Plyvit, the stuff at Home Depot, or some AG hose.

TSP is at Florida Chemical Supply in Tampa, as is Borax.
They have great prices, worth the drive.

Good Luck to you!
Chris

[mobilewow]

What Chris said

[MudDuck]

Chris, I'm going to order the Delevan systm from PT next week and was wondering to get the 5/8 or the 1/2. Also it comes with two 100ft poly hoses. Are those to put together to have one 200 ft'er?
Thanks

[Off D Wall]

I am returning the Shurflo that i just pick up 2 days ago from northern.
A TGS member that live around the block from me had a new 5800 series delevan colecting dust and he offer to sell it to me .
so i am buying it from him, and monday afternoon i am picking up 300ft ag hose on a titan reel so i guest i will be pumping the sauce next week ( woo wooo !!!!!!!!!)
thanks patrick for the pump!!!!

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

The bigger the hose, the better, I would go for the 5/8 hose, not familiar with the way Bob sells it

[Jim in NJ]

I talked to Bob about this the other day. To make a long story short - its easier to push the water up a 1/2 hose then it is a 5/8" hose when you are 12-40' up a ladder or walking a roof. Even the bandit comes with a 1/2" hose and that is gas powered.

[MudDuck]

Do I hear duelling banjo's? do do da da do do da da daaaaaaaa. do da da do da do do da daaaaaaaaaa!

[Don Phelps]

There's a reason why pesticide/fertilizer applicators and hose reel makers use 1/2" hoses and tubing and it doesn't have anything to with talking heads blowing hot air on the internet all the time.


However, some like the workout of dragging heavier hose around and the readily available back-up hose hanging on the sides of customer's homes though. The inner rubber lining in garden hose has been known to break up over time and clog guns, nozzles etc.





Bob knows his stuff!

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Don Phelps

There's a reason why pesticide companies and hose reel makers use 1/2" hoses and tubing and it doesn't have anything to with talking heads blowing hot air on the Internet all the time.


However, some like the workout of dragging heavier hose around and the readily available back-up hose hanging on the sides of customer's homes though. The inner rubber lining in garden hose has been known to break up over time and clog guns, nozzles etc.





Bob knows his stuff!

Pressure Washing and Pesticide pumps have enough pressure to overcome the loss inherent in long lengths of smaller diameter hose.
12 volt pumps do not.
Big hose is better in EVERY application, as far as pressure and flow loss is concerned.
NOT just "theory and hot air"
Proven by myself, and Tim Aselton in real world flow testing.
If you don't remember the thread, shall I did it up again ?
And further confirmed as well by Larry Hinckley of Delco.

I do not know Bob's thoughts on this, just what YOU say his thoughts are.
I KNOW he makes 5/8 available, so if 1/2 inch is "better" why even make 5/8 available ?

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Jim in NJ

I talked to Bob about this the other day. To make a long story short - its easier to push the water up a 1/2 hose then it is a 5/8" hose when you are 12-40' up a ladder or walking a roof. Even the bandit comes with a 1/2" hose and that is gas powered.

This is absolutely incorrect, perhaps you misunderstood Bob ?
Firemen climb ladders all the time, and lives DEPEND on a decent supply of water being delivered.
Never saw 1/2 inch hose on a fire truck, have you ?
Read THIS
Some fire departments don't even carry booster lines on their trucks, to avoid the possibility that they will be pulled in the wrong situation, placing firefighters in jeopardy. Departments that still carry them generally use booster lines for small tasks such as extinguishing grass fires, washing off a roadway after a car accident or smothering a trash fire, experts said.
Booster lines are pulled from reels and draw water from large tanks contained within the fire truck. Their nozzles are typically an inch in diameter and can spray 30 to 60 gallons of water per minute. Larger hoses, called attack lines, can spray 150 gallons per minute or more, which many fire safety experts say is the minimum needed for attacking a structure fire.
Using booster lines can be risky because they leave little room for error when matched against today's fires, which burn hotter because of an abundance of man-made combustible materials.
If firefighters are unable to quell a small fire using a booster line, the fire hose can quickly become powerless against a growing fire, allowing it to spread. Firefighters also need enough water to protect themselves from flames.
For just those reasons, the Mount
Pleasant Fire Department stopped widespread use of booster lines 15 years ago, but keeps one around for the occasional grass fire. Isle of Palms firefighters stopped using booster lines in the 1980s, and the Greenville Fire Department followed suit a decade later. Savannah firefighters keep some booster lines on reserve trucks, but they are mainly used for washing off equipment or hosing off fluids.
Myrtle Beach Fire Chief Alvin Payne, a 30-year veteran of the fire service, isn't ready to abandon these small hoses. He said booster lines have their place, but he won't allow his firefighters to use them on a burning building. "We don't use them for structure fires. Whenever you are attacking a structure fire, you want to protect your personnel, and a booster line doesn't put out enough flow to protect personnel."
Fire experts have raised similar safety concerns. A 2001 journal article published by the National Fire Protection Association concluded that booster lines "offer little chance of extinguishment and often place firefighters in danger."
The paper's authors said arguments that booster lines might help preserve property because of their low water flow don't hold up to scrutiny. "A higher rate of flow, properly applied, results in quick extinguishment and less water damage. Conversely, water applied through small, inadequate attack lines results in more water, fire and smoke damage and often places firefighters and occupants in danger."
One of the paper's authors, Russ Sanders, is a former chief of the Louisville Fire Department in Kentucky and now works for the National Fire Protection Association, the organization that writes federal firefighting safety guidelines.
It is pressure that moves water, so the less resistance in a hose, the lower the pressure drop, leaving more pressure availiable to move the water.
On a Bandit, you have plenty of PSI and GPM to "pizz away" in a 1/2 inch hose.
I used roller pumps way back when.
Used BOTH 1/2 and 5/8 hose, even used 3/4 once!
5/8 is noticeably better on a roller pump, 3/4 inch was not enough better IMHO on a roller pump for the added bulk in everyday use.

BUT, on a 12 volt pump, the difference in 300 ft of 5/8 vs 1/2 inch hose is like night and day.
Here is a pump delivering 90 psi spraying a roof on a 40 ft ladder, and another picture showing my pump/hose set up shooting across a roof.

We "practice what we preach", and do not use 5/8 hose because it "looks cool" or so we can blow "hot air" on the Internet.
We use it because it is better, and makes life easier on our pumps, and our Men.

[Don Phelps]

Originally Posted by Apple Roof Cleaning

Pressure Washing and Pesticide pumps have enough pressure to overcome the loss inherent in long lengths of smaller diameter hose.
12 volt pumps do not.
Big hose is better in EVERY application, as far as pressure and flow loss is concerned.
NOT just "theory and hot air"
Proven by myself, and Tim Aselton in real world flow testing.
If you don't remember the thread, shall I did it up again ?
And further confirmed as well by Larry Hinckley of Delco.

I do not know Bob's thoughts on this, just what YOU say his thoughts are.
I KNOW he makes 5/8 available, so if 1/2 inch is "better" why even make 5/8 available ?

Pesticide/fert applicators use 12v pumps, pto-driven pumps, etc, etc.

It's not a point of your "bigger is better" babble, it's about practical application. It doesn't take heavy hose to do chemical applications. If someone chooses to use them, that's their perogative. Hence, it's a choice. A choice that Bob allows people to make on their own. What's next.....Are you gonna try to convince everyone that he's just setting them up for failure? Wake up and smell the roses, there's more than just your way of doing things and they're just as efficient if not more so and that's life.

By the way, don't try spinning things into something that no one said. I never spoke for Bob's thoughts. I simply said he knows his stuff and I'm pretty sure many others will have the same opinion.

None of you "proved" anything. It's been around a lot longer than you. The only point of contention is in your mind.

I'm sure the only thing you're interested in digging up is trouble.

Are you going to tell all these new guys to use your "mean green" hose again too? That one didn't work either.

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Don Phelps

Pesticide/fert applicators use 12v pumps, PTO-driven pumps, etc, etc.

It's not a point of your "bigger is better" babble, it's about practical application. It doesn't take heavy hose to do chemical applications. If someone chooses to use them, that's their prerogative. Hence, it's a choice. A choice that Bob allows people to make on their own. What's next.....Are you gonna try to convince everyone that he's just setting them up for failure? Wake up and smell the roses, there's more than just your way of doing things and they're just as efficient if not more so and that's life.

By the way, don't try spinning things into something that no one said. I never spoke for Bob's thoughts. I simply said he knows his stuff and I'm pretty sure many others will have the same opinion.

None of you "proved" anything. It's been around a lot longer than you. The only point of contention is in your mind.

I'm sure the only thing you're interested in digging up is trouble.

Are you going to tell all these new guys to use your "mean green" hose again too? That one didn't work either.

Someone ASKED for advice, I gave it, based on my experience.
They can use what they want, it does not effect me.

It takes pressure and flow to do chemical applications.
In a 12 volt pump we have very little pressure and flow to throw away in small diameter hose.
The less pressure and flow we throw away, the more is left when we NEED it.
Bottom line ?
I can spray faster, and shoot further, using bigger hose.
This means I get done faster, do roofs I couldn't do with smaller hose, and my pump work less hard, and lasts longer.
My chemical exposure time is cut down, because I am on and OFF a roof faster.
There is no "babble" Don, and it is not my "opinion" you are questioning here.
You are questioning scientific FACT, long established, and supported by scientific equations.
Try as we might, we can't change the laws of Physics.

Big Hose is better, and that was the original question that I answered.
Honda Civics get really good mileage, but I drive a Ford F 150 because I LIKE it.
The original poster MAY choose to use 1/2 inch hose due to personal preferences, or bad advice.

And I am OK with that.

This is not a "take my suggestions or else" situation, and please do not spin it that way.

As far as the mean green hose goes, people are STILL using it.

We do NOT rinse out our pumps or system here EVER, and clean many roofs EVERY SINGLE DAY.

We "only" got 3 or 4 months out of the Mean Green Hose, under THESE conditions.

For those rinsing their pumps/reels/hose out, and doing a few roofs a week, it may last a while ?

Mean Green IS the best hose I have ever used, as far as ease of use goes.
I am THINKING on building a truck JUST for me.
I will put Mean Green on it because I Rinse stuff out, and it is easy to use.
Remember, Apple Roof Cleaning is not one guy, we have employees.
Employees forget to rinse, or just plain disobey orders.
My Answer ?
TRY and make an "idiot proof" roof cleaning system that will take abuse.
Mostly, I have succeeded, except for the hose reel cores, and I am working on that.

[Apple Roof Cleaning]

Originally Posted by Jim in NJ

I talked to Bob about this the other day. To make a long story short - its easier to push the water up a 1/2 hose then it is a 5/8" hose when you are 12-40' up a ladder or walking a roof. Even the bandit comes with a 1/2" hose and that is gas powered.

Here is a chart that will enlighten you http://www.dultmeier.com/pdfs/tech-library/02Water8.pdf

[Don Phelps]

Originally Posted by Apple Roof Cleaning

Someone ASKED for advice, I gave it, based on my experience.
They can use what they want, it does not effect me.

It takes pressure and flow to do chemical applications.
In a 12 volt pump we have very little pressure and flow to throw away in small diameter hose.
The less pressure and flow we throw away, the more is left when we NEED it.
Bottom line ?
I can spray faster, and shoot further, using bigger hose.
This means I get done faster, do roofs I couldn't do with smaller hose, and my pump work less hard, and lasts longer.
My chemical exposure time is cut down, because I am on and OFF a roof faster.
There is no "babble" Don, and it is not my "opinion" you are questioning here.
You are questioning scientific FACT, long established, and supported by scientific equations.
Try as we might, we can't change the laws of Physics.

Big Hose is better, and that was the original question that I answered.
Honda Civics get really good mileage, but I drive a Ford F 150 because I LIKE it.
The original poster MAY choose to use 1/2 inch hose due to personal preferences, or bad advice.

And I am OK with that.

This is not a "take my suggestions or else" situation, and please do not spin it that way.

As far as the mean green hose goes, people are STILL using it.

We do NOT rinse out our pumps or system here EVER, and clean many roofs EVERY SINGLE DAY.

We "only" got 3 or 4 months out of the Mean Green Hose, under THESE conditions.

For those rinsing their pumps/reels/hose out, and doing a few roofs a week, it may last a while ?

Mean Green IS the best hose I have ever used, as far as ease of use goes.
I am THINKING on building a truck JUST for me.
I will put Mean Green on it because I Rinse stuff out, and it is easy to use.
Remember, Apple Roof Cleaning is not one guy, we have employees.
Employees forget to rinse, or just plain disobey orders.
My Answer ?
TRY and make an "idiot proof" roof cleaning system that will take abuse.
Mostly, I have succeeded, except for the hose reel cores, and I am working on that.

You can make your posts longer and longer and it won't change anything. It might pollute the thought process for a few that aren't paying attention or too new to fully understand it, but the fact of the matter remains the same. No one is "debating" anything about hose size and flow. You're arguing with no one but yourself.

One last time, it's about choice and practicality.

Florida is the roof cleaning capital of the world and there are sooo many more roof cleaning contractors out there using 1/2" hose, just as the pesticide/fert guys do. Why, because in the grand scheme of things it makes more practical sense, but again, it's nothing more than a matter of choice for some. Some use underpowered pumps and have to find ways to compensate, others have enough power/psi to use 1/2" and never skip a beat. Not to mention it looks pretty half-azzed driving around with garden hose rather than the appropriate hose for the profession, but that's a whole other conversation isn't it?

Fortunately, these caribbean spare ribs I just yanked off the fire mean a lot more right now than wasting time talking through your circles.


Ramble on!