2008 Sealer Poll

[plainpainter]

I disagree with you on the wet sponge theory, Beth. Woodtux is relying on the molecular weight of the resin to displace the water. I have applied woodtux directly over a deck I had washed and neutralized last May - if anything the brush dragged - but it allowed me to get a very even finish. I have in the past used oil primers on wet wood, and with one particular product - an hour later there was a puddle of water sitting on top of the primer - it had forced the water out of the wood! So the wet sponge analogy doesn't always hold.

[northwestern]

I think with wood tux you can give a solid date on when you'll be back to stain. I've let wood dry for 2-3 days and test the moisture and find out that it's at 17% and then I can't stain because it has to be at 15%. wood tux would give you the go ahead to stain even if the wood is a little wet.

[plainpainter]

If you won't stain wood at 17% vs. 15% - you are really splitting fine hairs, even for a traditional product that needs dry wood. I've always said 18% I think is fine - I don't even think wood in a humid environment truly can ever dry much more than 15-16% anyways.

[CarolinaProWash]

Charlie - let us know when you're ready to order......there are a number of us in the Carolinas that use WT. We're also partial to the Brown Sugar!

Celeste

[James]

I not sure what to do about using wOoDtUx on HardwooDs. From year to year it seem like where playing "Russel Roulette" with the formula ( no consistency). All the stuff I did in or with 2006 Formula looks better than the 2007 formula when fixed. Went and looked at a few decks yesterday.

[Beth n Rod]

Originally Posted by plainpainter

I disagree with you on the wet sponge theory, Beth. Woodtux is relying on the molecular weight of the resin to displace the water. I have applied woodtux directly over a deck I had washed and neutralized last May - if anything the brush dragged - but it allowed me to get a very even finish. I have in the past used oil primers on wet wood, and with one particular product - an hour later there was a puddle of water sitting on top of the primer - it had forced the water out of the wood! So the wet sponge analogy doesn't always hold.

Daniel,
I'm not going to argue with you, we have applied it wet, we have applied it dry, it holds up better if you apply it dry. No lie. Better color, slightly different looking finish, longer lasting applied dry. End of story.
Beth

[plainpainter]

I think the real issue, Beth, with applying woodtux on wet vs. dry wood - is that it is much harder to guage how much actual product has actually gone on the wood when applied to wet wood. I think there is the natural tendency to 'under' apply perhaps? But this is stretching it anyways - as you say, you can't sand wet wood! And I agree totally.

[MMI Enterprises]

oops..looks like the costing $27.96 more per hour to use over Omax figuring I did in a recent Ptstate thread is perhaps out the window now. Biggest fence for me, to date.
Bear in mind that amount was figured based around whole project of both the cleaning and staining hours and 150 per sq.ft. assumed usage for wtw by poster compared to 190 for omax that I reasoned....If the covergae rates are closer then of course it is not as big an amount but the price increase on the other hand would either make it a wash or take the difference higher.
Gotta say the price figuring for me is a no brainer on what I will have to use more of this year. I suspect the price increases will for some reason be smaller the larger the supplier/manufacture is.


ps- ok here is a breakdown/comparison of how different products may cost you profit:

*Note this example may not reflect contractor or quantity pricing or accurate sales tax or shipping costs..Is just a comparison of what I believe I have to pay today as of 3/19/08*

Product A- $40 , Product B- $24.39 = $15.61 difference cost per gal.
Spraying at 600sq.ft per hour= 3 gal. at 200sq.ft. per gal coverage credited to either product
$40x3=$120, $24.39x3=$73.17
$120-$73.17=
$46.83 more per hour to use product A over product B
...The $15.61 face value per gal. price difference translates into so much more in terms of profit.
8 hour spray day is $374.64
Cleaning a week and then staining a weak works out to:
11 days x $374.64 = $4121.04 per mon. ..or $24726.24 per 6 month season

..translates into customer will have to pay if they want one to use a higher cost product.
..it also may translate into it being considered wise that manufactures get their best pricing figures known and updated regularly.

[Beth n Rod]

Originally Posted by plainpainter

I think the real issue, Beth, with applying woodtux on wet vs. dry wood - is that it is much harder to guage how much actual product has actually gone on the wood when applied to wet wood. I think there is the natural tendency to 'under' apply perhaps? But this is stretching it anyways - as you say, you can't sand wet wood! And I agree totally.

Yup. Also on a hot day, as the deck dries, you get uneven color due to the WMC changing as you work.

Beth

[MMI Enterprises]

Originally Posted by Beth n Rod

Yup. Also on a hot day, as the deck dries, you get uneven color due to the WMC changing as you work.

Beth

sanding may help..
A sanding grit & stain test on redwood

[Beth n Rod]

So you are saying ... if you are following this thread... that after you wash, then seal the wet wood, if blotchy - then sand (WHEN DRY)- which means resealing? Dude, that's nuts. To me (and what the heck do I know) its better to:

Wash
Let dry
Sand/prep as needed
Seal
Get paid and boogie.

Beth

[PressurePros]

Kevin, your whole arguement goes out the window when you get 20 rainy days in a season that will throw off your schedule. Can Olympic be used on a moist deck? You can't really come up with empiracal data based upon one job and then plug those numbers into perfect world scenario. Wait until you have to get into completing 7-10+ decks per week.

I am not going to use Wood Tux on my decks anymore. To reconsider I will have to see one year of straight up product consistency and distribution. I'm going to take the road less traveled this year with a new product.

[Beth n Rod]

Ken,
We are too. I think a number of people are anxious for the new kid on the block to hit the streets. Several will be offering it....

Beth

[James]

Ken, you not going to play Russel Roulette like the last 5 years ?

[plainpainter]

Jim, in all fairness to Russell - he did raise the bar in terms of deck staining products. I know you guys have gone over to the parafinnic side - but for the most part deck stains started out decades ago by formulations of linseed oils and fungicides - which are curing type stains. That being said - without woodtux - what would guys be using now? ATO? Sikkens? What product out there has really done so much to prop up how well respected deck refinishers are considered? Beth and Rod for instance made a career on the woodtux products. I understand there has been the other side in terms of consistency of product - reformulations that have lead to minor disasters - and unreliable shipping.

Russell assured me that after spring '07 that the formula has been 'locked' - he is no longer going to fool around with it - he is sticking to his guns, that if guys want an easier product - then there is the woodrich stain&seal product. And the woodtux will remain the slightly harder to use higher solids product.

It's not easy to formulate a quality product, in all fairness products like readyseal are very easy and cheap to formulate. Parafinnic stains are very 'low' technology stains - I still see oil leaching after rainstorms on my deck 5 months after the last application. They definitely are not the end-all be-all to high quality deck restorations. Heck - I have this section of roof that pours onto my deck - which doesn't have a rain gutter - and you can see a clear line of demarcation in the deck, where the oils have been washed out!
Its not pretty and isn't very professional looking in my opinion.