2008 Sealer Poll

[Scott Paul]

It is on the exempt list though. Example: The solvent based paver sealer I sell can only be sold to California if it has acetone in it. Problem is that I have to ship it Haz Mat due to the flamability of it.

[Beth n Rod]

As an ingredient, any organic compound counts toward the product's reactivity based limit. So if it shoots the VOC's way up, it doesn't matter which list it is on. The product still has a threshold as I read the EPA guidelines....

Beth

[Russell Cissell]

Beth

There are many levels of understanding. What you are saying is 100% correct. Acetone is both on the list and 100% VOC. You do have to add it up when you use it as an ingredient. Scott is also right Acetone comes with a 1:1 exemption. That means that if I were to use it, I would first add it into my total VOC, but then I get to subtract it back out because it has an exemption.

It's not that it has become any safer, but for political reasons it is overlooked on purpose.

Another example is I could make a stain with 50% mineral spirits and still legally sell it to you right there in MD. I could not claim it as LOW VOC but I could claim it to be VOC compliant. All I would have to do is pay a "tax" on the percentage that I am over the limit. In that way I can purchase an "exemption" for the additional VOC.

[Beth n Rod]

Originally Posted by Russell Cissell

Beth

There are many levels of understanding. What you are saying is 100% correct. Acetone is both on the list and 100% VOC. You do have to add it up when you use it as an ingredient. Scott is also right Acetone comes with a 1:1 exemption. That means that if I were to use it, I would first add it into my total VOC, but then I get to subtract it back out because it has an exemption.

It's not that it has become any safer, but for political reasons it is overlooked on purpose.

Another example is I could make a stain with 50% mineral spirits and still legally sell it to you right there in MD. I could not claim it as LOW VOC but I could claim it to be VOC compliant. All I would have to do is pay a "tax" on the percentage that I am over the limit. In that way I can purchase an "exemption" for the additional VOC.

Well from what I can tell....none of the major popular oils in our area are doing that....Not TWP, Sikkens, Cabot, WT or others. All of them just lowered VOC's...

How high is the tax? Just curious...it must be high if no one is doing it.

Beth

[Scott Paul]

From what I understand the tax would continue to increase every year that it is made. That is why none of the manufacturers will do it.

[Russell Cissell]

Yeah, I think they call it a deterrent or something.

I would argue the sum total VOC release could be drastically reduced by allowing manufacturers to formulate based on quality rather than politics. For every year I can keep you from going back to a deck it reduces more VOC than would be required to make a superior product.

[CarolinaProWash]

Well that seems to make sense Russell. You could also look at that as a water conservation effort as well.

Celeste

[MMI Enterprises]

The turps talk and the voc talk feels like deja vu...
Suppliers tell me my area is low but down south is even lower and it is heading our way...

[KC Deck]

I use TWP because of past results and easy accessibility to get the product.

[Beth n Rod]

KC,
What's the most popular color for TWP in your area?
Beth

[Scott Paul]

Cedartone 101 counts for 80% of our sales with TWP in the 100 series. In the 500 series, you may want to go with the 515 Light Cedar. Nothing wrong with the 501 Cedartone it is just more of a brown cedar color.

[KC Deck]

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you. Cedartone is the most popular color that I have seen in my area. I have done some Redwood, but not very many.

[GLPC]

Having been in the cleaning and sealing service industry for 11 years, my company has recently switched from some of the more common industry choices to Armstrong Stain. Very user friendly with transparent and semi-transparent finishes that hold up.

[plainpainter]

Originally Posted by Russell Cissell

Yeah, I think they call it a deterrent or something.

I would argue the sum total VOC release could be drastically reduced by allowing manufacturers to formulate based on quality rather than politics. For every year I can keep you from going back to a deck it reduces more VOC than would be required to make a superior product.

This is exactly what I said in another post - what do you gain by using a low VOC product if you use it twice or three times as often? I think Beth said something to the effect we use them because it's healthier for the environment. But that is ignoring the fact that 3 sequential applications of a 'healthier' product is in fact when you add up all the VOC's for all three applications is in fact much higher than a supposed 'polluter'. This is the EPA being penny wise and pound foolish in my opinion.

There should be a 'quality' matrix involved - and two things should be analyzed like 'endurance' and VOC's. This is almost like baseball where they used batting averages to determine how good a player was. Now they use 'on-base-percentage' along with their hitting average to form a more complete picture of a player.

[MMI Enterprises]

I'd like to give props to Jake Clark of Armstrong-Clark Company for the utmost in professionalizm and customer service. Innitial testing went real well. Product has a good balance of qualities. Held verticles well with not much need for backbrushing, if any, and pigmentation was swell. It was also very friendly on the nostrils and sprayed as perfect as any other. It is a combo product with both curing oils and penetrating oils.
The color sample fans and sales flyers are second to none and are above par with picks of bright blue sky and mountain ski resorts. I talked to Jake on a weekend and had my product by a Tuesday evening UPS shipping. The product is also carried in some Kelly Moore or Sherwins I believe so between quik mail order and local availability the product is real attractve to me...

Thanx Jake!!


Could use some better lighting here but below is example of Sierra Redwood. Is abit richer in person and was perfect match for a Superdeck color that had failed all over: