Advanced Question Legacy wood...what is it?

[RPetry]

Old house. Deck has been documented to be between 35 and 50 years old. No one is sure, but the wood does not have any remnants of stain. In NJ, nothing lasts this long without care aside from old growth.

Certainly a softwood. Note the endgrain deterioration on the edge of the stairs. Endgrain off foot traffic looks like it has just been cut.

Moss, mold, and mildew. Not splintered, a few knots out but few. True 2" x 8" deck boards, not dimensional lumber.

Quickly cleaned a spot on 2 deck boards with NaOH and rinsed. Hit with citric but still wet when I left.

Note the pic of the post in the ground. Boards are nailed, but after all this time nails have not "popped"!

Any ideas? My first guess is old growth redwood, due to the grain on the "cleaned" picture. But does old redwood have knots?

2nd guess would be old growth cedar, either red or white.

Do not know of any other softwood that could last this long in this climate.

Woodies, especially you West coasters, help me out! Thanks.

[RPetry]

"Post in the ground" picture. Nice.

[RPetry]

Quick clean picture. Still wet and not yet brightened.

[James]

Looks like The RED WOOD I take care of and it has a long LegAcy ?

[Beth n Rod]

Looks like redwood to me.
Beth

[RPetry]

Beth & Jim,

Thanks. My first guess also. But does redwood have tight knots? I do recall seeing old redwoods in Northern California 30 years ago. Seem to remember very tall, straight tree trunks, with no branching, until the top canopy.

Need help, west coast woodies!

[Beth n Rod]

Yes, Redwood does have knots, like any wood, depends on the grade.
Need help with what specifically?

Rod!~

[RPetry]

Rod,

Ok, thanks. I just want to correctly ID the species of wood. Will probably meet with the owner today.

If we get the job, there are some rotted endgrain step treads that we will trim off. I'll send a sample to FPL for positive identification.

[fireandrain]

Rick,

Looks like redwood to me. Thats all I see out here in No. Calif. All sorts of redwood out here, old and new. Surprised to see it out your way, but my .02 is redwood, Rick. It will look fabulous when you get through with it!

[RPetry]

Matt,

You West coast guys are the friggin' cat's meow. You guys do know your redwood. Those of us on the East coast can always help you with pressure treated Southern Yellow Pine!

Stopped by today, and put just a drop of RS on the dried wood. Immediately turned black. Seen this once before with old redwood, I am convinced. The paraffinic oil just pushes the natural resins/oil to the surface in a heartbeat.

Yeah, it is nearly certainly redwood. Got a call this morning from a Western contractor, an old salt, that thinks it may not be just old growth redwood, but old growth redwood that is all heartwood!

Holy smokes, this kind of wood is unheard of here in the East.

Peirce Fitchette of Ready Seal emailed a link that is further indicative. Look at: OGA - Lumber

Thanks Peirce.

A few pics of the dried wood attached. If anyone has differing opinions, please post. Now it is off to find 2 matching boards of the same wood for replacement. One is 2"x12"x12 feet!

Even the joists and stringers are redwood. This is an old, very old deck.

Gotta' love the wood business. Feel like a history detective on PBS! Thanks to all.

A few more pics attached.

[fireandrain]

Wish I saw more PT and cedar out here,Rick, I'd be tapping your brain daily! Never seen a PT deck out here, did a cedar last year, behaved well. Possibly heartwood on that one, certainly old growth,though. The heart I see out here is close to knot-free and ridiculously expensive. Suppose thats a good thing. I'd prefer to still be able to walk in an old growth redwood forest, not much of it left out here. People who visit Northern California are always raving about the redwood forests of the north coast, leave believing theres still alot of it up there. Not true. Most of the old growth in Northern Cal. is limted to the 'beauty strips" the logging co's have been so kind to leave bordering all of the major tourist highways up there. Dont get me started. Our redwood forests were VERY poorly managed in the last 100 yrs. Having said that, I enjoy living in a 10 yr. old Victorian framed in full dimensional 2x3 redwood! If I'm ever cursed with a house fire here, I imagine the only thing standing will be my old redwood framing... Have fun with that one,Rick. I imagine you are gong to be working with RS Redwood Only formula? Does the trick with respect to preventing the redwood from going black on you.

[RPetry]

Originally Posted by fireandrain

Wish I saw more PT and cedar out here,Rick, I'd be tapping your brain daily! Never seen a PT deck out here, did a cedar last year, behaved well.

Matt, I guess we are kind of lucky back here in the East. Bread and butter work is PT SYP and to a lesser extent, Western Red Cedar. Have been working on quite a bit of red mahogany over the past few years, along with a sprinkling of ipe', teak furniture, various maranti's, and "who knows" Asian hardwoods. Quite a bit of variety.

Originally Posted by fireandrain

Possibly heartwood on that one, certainly old growth,though. The heart I see out here is close to knot-free and ridiculously expensive. Suppose thats a good thing.

I am going to call that website that Peirce linked later today. They may be able to supply a few replacement boards and with pictures, help further identify the approximate age and origin of the redwood.

Met with the owner yesterday, and we have the job. There is a possiblity that this deck was built in the 1920's! I have to admit that this job has got me real excited. In 8 years, only worked on one old growth redwood deck and it is a beautiful wood.

Originally Posted by fireandrain

I'd prefer to still be able to walk in an old growth redwood forest, not much of it left out here. People who visit Northern California are always raving about the redwood forests of the north coast, leave believing theres still alot of it up there. Not true. Most of the old growth in Northern Cal. is limted to the 'beauty strips" the logging co's have been so kind to leave bordering all of the major tourist highways up there. Dont get me started. Our redwood forests were VERY poorly managed in the last 100 yrs.

In general, America's natural resources have been poorly managed in the past. It was the old "gold rush, make a quick buck, conqueror the continent" mentality. But I think that has evolved, and is slowly changing for the better.

Originally Posted by fireandrain

Having said that, I enjoy living in a 10 yr. old Victorian framed in full dimensional 2x3 redwood! If I'm ever cursed with a house fire here, I imagine the only thing standing will be my old redwood framing...

Did not know redwood was fire resistant. Sounds like you have a real nice home!

Originally Posted by fireandrain

Have fun with that one,Rick. I imagine you are gong to be working with RS Redwood Only formula? Does the trick with respect to preventing the redwood from going black on you.

Having fun already and am really looking forward to restoring this "antique" deck. Scheduled for mid to late August. I'm not sure what product we will use for stain. Probably wait and see how the wood cleans up.

The Ready Seal redwood only formula does work great, and looks good. But redwood is a Northwest US indigenous tree, and Armstrong-Clark is company located in the heart of the Sierra Nevada range. Might be appropriate, we'll see.

Thanks for your help and input Matt.

[fireandrain]

Now I've seen some pretty old and raqgged redwood decks in my time, but never seen a 90 yr. old redwood deck attached to it's joists with finish nails! Is that whole deck tied down with those fin. nails pictured,Rick? Honestly though, Ive come across a few old heartwood redwood decks that look pretty similar in condition to your new play thing,Rick. Usually date back 30 yrs. or so. Redwood can really look beat if neglected, but comes right back with talents like yours,Rick. have fun!

[RPetry]

Matt,

Yeah, noticed those finish nails. The ends are fastened with what looks like 16 penny nails. What is amazing is that no nails, finish or otherwise, are popped or loose.

Talk about a stable wood! The current owner has been in the home for ~ 5 years and has not touched the deck. Says it "looks about the same" as when she moved in.

[weaselcossey]

Originally Posted by RPetry

Matt,

Yeah, noticed those finish nails. The ends are fastened with what looks like 16 penny nails. What is amazing is that no nails, finish or otherwise, are popped or loose.

Talk about a stable wood! The current owner has been in the home for ~ 5 years and has not touched the deck. Says it "looks about the same" as when she moved in.

Must be some type of swirled or ring shank nails for absolutely none to be popped out. We use the 4" swirled nails repairing docks. Nearly everything here is SYP. I've completely redecked a couple of docks, and have never had a problem with those nails working loose. I'm sure you know how the moist pressure-treated SYP acts when it dries. Considering the constant moving side to side, up and down in the water, and constant moisture from underneath the dock and condensation, its pretty amazing how well a good nail will hold in stable wood.

The finish nails just blow my mind. That lumber must have been dried very well, and straight as an arrow.